MetroFocus: February 13, 2023

>>> TONIGHT, FENTANYL IS FLOODING THE STREETS, DEALERS ARE LACING THERE DEADLY DRUG INTO THEIR SUPPLY AND USERS HAVE NO IDEA.

WITH OVERDOSE DEATHS AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH, FORMER AND ACTIVE USERS ARE BANDING TOGETHER TO SAVE LIVES.

INDEPENDENT LENS TAKES US INSIDE A GRASSROOTS INJECTION SITE TO SHOW HOW ONE COMMUNITY IS PERSEVERING AMID THE RAMPANT OPIOID CRISIS.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILANEM D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JACK FORD.

THE OVERDOSE EPIDEMIC IN AMERICA IS WORSENING.

NOW CLAIMING MORE THAN 100,000 LIVES EVERY YEAR.

DRIVING THE CRISIS IS FENTANYL, A CHEAP AND DEADLY SYNTHETIC OPIOID THAT DEALERS MIX INTO STREET DRUGS OF ALL KINDS.

AND THE PANDEMIC HAS ONLY DEANED THE PROBLEM.

LOVE IN THE TIME OF FENTANYL, A NEW DOCUMENTARY FROM INDEPENDENT LENS, POINTS TO A SOMETIMES CONTROVERSIAL SOLUTION THAT ADVOCATES SAY DOES MORE THAN ANY OTHER TO SAVE LIVES.

HARM REDUCTION AND THE CREATION OF SAFE INJECTION SITES WHERE USERS CAN CONSUME DRUGS UNDER SUPERVISION.

THE FILM TAKES US INSIDE ONE SUCH SITE IN VANCOUVER, GROUND ZERO OF CANADA'S OWN SURGING OPIOID CRISIS.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

♪♪ >>> WHAT ARE YOU USING?

>> WHAT -- >> YOU BREATHING THERE, CHAMP?

>> LET'S REMEMBER WHERE WE ARE.

OUR COMMUNITY HAS ENDURED A CRISIS, AND SO MANY OF US CHOSE TO RESPOND.

WE KEEP OUR COMMUNITY SAFE, WE KEEP OUR LOVED ONES ALIVE.

AND IN SHARING OUR COMPASSION AND WISDOM WE BECOME WORLD CHANGERS, EACH OF US HERE.

>> SO SAD, WE CAN'T HANDLE ANYMORE PEOPLE DYING DOWN HERE.

TO THOSE ON THE FRONT LINES, THEY'RE SAVING LIVES ALL DAY EVERY DAY, AND IT'S HARD ON THEM.

[ SIREN ] >> OVERDOSE -- >> I OVERDOSED MYSELF.

I WAS LUCKY, I WAS WITH MY ROOMMATE, TOO.

>> WE'RE MAKING THE BEST OF WHAT WE'VE GOT IN THE MIDDLE OF A CRISIS SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE ARE DYING, AND WE'RE LOSING OUR FRIENDS.

>> ALL RIGHT, GUYS, IF YOU'VE DONE YOUR SMASH, TIME TO DASH.

MOVE OVER TO THE WINDCHILL HALF AN HOUR LIMIT, SHOOT WITHIN IT.

>> JOINING US NOW IS THE DIRECTOR AND CO-PRODUCER OF "LOVE IN THE TIME OF FENTANYL," COLIN ASKEY, AND ALSO WITH US IS RONNIE GRIGG WHO IS FEATURED IN THE FILM.

HE HAS BEEN WORKING ON THE FRONT LINES OF THE DRUG WAR FOR MANY YEARS.

HE'S A FIERCE ADVOCATE FOR HARM REDUCTION AND SAFE INJECTION SITES, SOMETHING HE SAYS HE DIDN'T ALWAYS SUPPORT.

GENTLEMEN, WELCOME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

>> I WANT TO START BY SAYING THAT THE FILM IS SO POWERFUL AND SO THOUGHT PROVOKING, SO CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU BOTH FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.

LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW IT DID GET PUT TOGETHER.

COLIN, LET ME COME TO YOU FIRST.

AS THE PRODUCER AND THE MOVING FORCE HERE, HOW AND WHY DID YOU DECIDE YOU WANTED TO DO OR YOU NEEDED TO DO THIS PROJECT?

>> YEAH, SO FOR ME THE DOWNTOWN EAST SIDE WHERE THE FILM TAKES PLACE IS A COMMUNITY THAT MEANS A LOT TO ME.

IT'S A COMMUNITY THAT I WAS A PART OF FOR MANY YEARS.

I WORKED THERE FOR MANY YEARS, AND I -- I GUESS IT WAS MY KIND OF INTRODUCTION INTO HARM REDUCTION.

IT'S WHERE I STARTED WORKING AT THE FIRST SUPERVISED INJECTION SITE IN NORTH AMERICA AT A PLACE CALLED INSIGHT.

IT'S WHERE I MET RONNIE.

AND FOR ME IT REALLY CHANGED THE WAY I REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

AND I GOT TO MEET SO MANY PEOPLE THAT HAD, YOU KNOW, COME FROM A -- VARYING CHALLENGES AND EXPERIENCES, AND I REALLY SAW HOW WHEN YOU CREATE A PLACE LIKE THIS THAT WELCOMES PEOPLE THAT AREN'T WELCOME ANYWHERE ELSE IN SOCIETY THAT IT'S REALLY A BEGINNING FOR SO MUCH IN THAT PERSON'S LIFE.

AND I REALLY SAW THAT MAGIC BEGINS TO HAPPEN, AND I -- I KIND OF DEDICATED MY LIFE DOING THIS WORK FOR A LONG TIME.

AND I ALSO WAS ASKED TO DO DIFFERENT VIDEOS, AND A LOT OF THAT WAS EDUCATIONAL AND AWARENESS VIDEOS FOR KIND OF DIFFERENT HARM REDUCTION ORGANIZATIONS OR SOCIAL INJUSTICE ORGANIZATIONS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

BECAUSE IT'S A COMMUNITY THAT HAS BEEN ABANDONED HISTORICALLY BY SOCIETY, AND IT'S A COMMUNITY OF KIND OF MISFITS AND OUTCASTS WITH ALL VARYING DEGREES OF CHALLENGES THAT REALLY HAVE COME TOGETHER AND -- AND REALLY FOUGHT TO SAY THAT WE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE.

I MOVED TO NEW YORK IN 2016 KIND OF RIGHT AS FENTANYL WAS REALLY TAKING OVER THE DRUG SUPPLY IN VANCOUVER, AND SO I WAS HEARING FROM A DISTANCE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT WE'D KNOWN AND LOVED PASSING AWAY.

AT TIMES ALMOST WEEKLY.

AND I KNEW LOTS OF FRIENDS LIKE RONNIE THAT WERE GOING THROUGH HELL DOWN THERE.

AND I WANTED TO GET BACK AND JUST SHINE A LIGHT ON WHAT WAS GOING ON.

AND I THINK AT THE TIME WHAT PEOPLE DIDN'T REALIZE WAS THE -- THEY KNEW THERE WAS A LOT OF DEATHS HAPPENING AND THERE WAS A CRISIS, BUT WHAT PEOPLE WEREN'T SEEING WAS THE COMMUNITY'S RESPONSE AND THE GRASSROOTS, YOU KNOW, ACTIVISM THAT WAS SAYING WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING HERE.

AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE TEACHING THEMSELVES TO LOSE NALOXONE AND SAVING EACH OTHER'S LIVES.

>> I WANT TO COME BACK TO YOU ABOUT SOME ELEMENTS OF HOW YOU SHOT THIS, THE WAY IT LOOKS, THE MESSAGES YOU WANT TO GET ACROSS.

BUT LET ME ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION.

YOU ARE, AS I MENTIONED, THROUGHOUT THE FILM, EARLY ON WE SEE YOU THERE, GIVE ME A QUICK BIO FOR YOU AS TO WHAT GOT YOU INTO THIS AREA.

>> WELL, FOR ME I WAS, AS YOU MENTIONED IN THE INTRO, I SHOWED UP AS A BIT OF A SKEPTIC TO HARM REDUCTION BECAUSE I, TOO, WAS KIND OF FIXED INTO THIS PERSPECTIVE THAT ABSTINENCE WAS THE ONLY LOGICAL RESPONSE TO ANY SUBSTANCE USE OR DEPENDENCY.

AND THAT WAS BACK IN 2009.

I WAS VERY TAKEN BY THE HOUSING MODEL THAT THE -- THAT THE PARENT NONPROFIT, THE PORTLAND HOTEL SOCIETY HAD.

AND TO ME IT WAS -- THEIR MOTTO WAS TO HOUSE THE HARDEST TO HOUSE WITH A NON-EVICTION POLICY.

AND TO ME, KNOWING THE COMMUNITY AND HAVING BEEN IN HOUSING, NONMARKET HOUSING WORK PRIOR TO THAT, I KNEW THAT THAT WAS RADICAL AND JUST AND COMPASSIONATE.

AND ALSO DIFFICULT AND DEMANDING.

SO THAT'S HOW I GOT INTO THE WORK WAS MORE THROUGH THE HOUSING END.

AND THEN AS I WAS -- AS I STARTED THAT WORK, INSIGHT, AS COLIN MENTIONED, WAS THE ONLY SUPERVISED CONSUMPTION SITE ON THE CONTINENT BETWEEN 2003 AND 2016.

THE OWN SANCTIONED SITE -- ONLY SANCTIONED SITE.

THEY HAD A STAFFING NEED, AND I WENT THERE.

I WAS REALLY TAKEN BY THE CARE OF INCLUDING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE KICKED OUT OF ENVIRONMENTS LIKE MALLS, PARKS, LIBRARIES, CHURCHES, CLINICS, AND HERE WAS A PLACE WHERE WE WERE FINDING THEM AND BRINGING THEM IN.

AND IT REALLY CAPTIVATED ME.

>> AND I THINK THE VIEWER IS GOING TO BE STRUCK BY THAT, BY THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE GATHERED, HAVE BEEN BROUGHT THIS HERE, THE DIFFERENT STORIES.

COLIN, IT'S A VERY GRITTY FILM, AND I MEAN THAT IN AN ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE SENSE.

YOU FEEL AS IF YOU ARE QUITE LITERALLY STANDING RIGHT THERE.

IT DOESN'T HAVE A NARRATOR.

THE PEOPLE, RONNIE AND THE OTHERS, ARE TELLING THEIR STORIES AS THIS -- THE FILM GOES ALONG.

WHY DECIDE TO DO IT IN THAT FASHION?

>> I THINK FOR ME LIKE MAKING THIS FILM IS REALLY LIKE -- AS I WAS MENTIONING BEFORE, AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE.

THERE WAS NO THOUGHT OR PLANNING, I JUST WANTED TO GET THERE AND REALLY START CAPTURING STUFF.

AND I ALSO, AS I MENTIONED, LIKE I'M AN ADVOCATE OF THESE PROGRAMS AND SERVICES, AND I WANTED TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT WASN'T TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO THINK.

I WANTED TO JUST BRING THE AUDIENCE ALONG, INSIDE A SPACE MAYBE THAT THEY HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE AND KIND OF PUSH PEOPLE PAST THEIR COMFORT ZONES.

I THINK IT'S A BIG THING WITH THIS ISSUE, AND WHY WE FIND OURSELVES IN THIS CRISIS IS BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF DEEPLY ENTRENCHED OPINIONS AND BELIEFS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO USE DRUGS, AND ABOUT DRUGS IN GENERAL, AND I JUST WANTED TO HOPEFULLY SHOW AUDIENCES A NEW WAY OF SEEING THIS ISSUE AND THESE PEOPLE MOST IMPORTANTLY.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE TITLE, TELL ME ABOUT WHERE THE TITLE CAME FROM.

I THINK -- YOU KNOW, I'VE EXECUTIVE PRODUCED SOME DOCUMENTARIES AND DONE SOME OTHER THINGS.

SOMETIMES I THINK COMING UP WITH A TITLE, IT CAN BE THE HARDEST THING THAT WE CAN POSSIBLY DO.

SO LET ME ASK YOU -- WE HAVE SHOULDER, AND THAT'S FINE.

WE'RE COMING INTO HIS HOUSE, AND HE'S WELCOME.

BUT TELL ME ABOUT THE TITLE.

WHERE DID IT COME FROM, WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

>> YEAH, FOR ME I THINK WHAT IS -- I WANTED TO CAPTURE WAS THE SMALL ACTS OF LOVE THAT EXIST IN THIS COMMUNITY.

AND REALLY I THINK THESE SMALL THINGS GO A LONG WAY IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT'S A COMMUNITY THAT REALLY VALUES HOW MUCH PEOPLE GIVE AND AS OPPOSED TO WHAT THEY MAY HAVE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO I KNOW LIKE WORKING THERE SOMETIMES IT'S JUST -- MEANS A CUP OF COFFEE TO SOMEONE CAN REALLY CHANGE THEIR DAY AND THEIR LIFE IN THAT MOMENT.

AND THERE'S SO MUCH THAT I KNEW WOULD HAPPEN, AND THAT'S WHAT I REALLY WANTED TO COME ACROSS.

THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS FILM IS ABOUT FOR ME.

I KNOW THERE'S A CRISIS AND A LOT OF DEATH HAPPENING OUTSIDE, BUT INSIDE THIS SPACE, IT'S REALLY ABOUT LIFE FOR ME.

AND THERE'S LOTS OF LAUGHTER AND LOVE INSIDE THERE.

AND SO YOU KNOW, "LOVE IN THE TIME OF FENTANYL" MADE SENSE.

IT WASN'T NECESSARILY OH, THIS HAS TO BE IT.

IT BUGGED ME WHEN COVID CAME ALONG AND EVERYTHING WAS CALLED "LOVE IN THE TIME OF COVID" AND ALL THAT.

BUT IT REALLY COULDN'T -- I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING THAT BETTER DESCRIBED WHAT THE FILM MEANT TO ME.

>> RONNIE, LET ME FOLLOW UP ON SOMETHING COLIN SAID THAT STRUCK ME ALSO.

THAT IS THE SENSE OF HUMANITY.

YOU'RE IN THIS NARROW SORT OF CONFINED SPACE, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE COMING FROM ALL OVER, GUY COMES IN ON ROLLERBLADES AND OTHER PEOPLE TALKING AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING TODAY.

BUT YOU DO GET A SENSE OF THESE ARE OUR -- THEY'RE PEOPLE, THEY ARE NOT CATEGORIES.

THEY ARE NOT DRUG USERS.

EXPLAIN HOW YOU'RE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT UNDER THESE VERY DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> WELL, I THINK -- I THINK THAT THAT'S A MISCONCEPTION IS THAT I NEED BRING SOMETHING TO HUMANIZE PEOPLE.

AND THAT OFTEN CAN BE A FAILURE OF CARE OR A CONDESCENDING ASPECT TO CARE BECAUSE THESE ARE PEOPLE, THESE ARE HUMANS WITH STORIES, WITH PERSONAL HISTORIES, WITH FAMILIES, WITH LOVED ONES THAT THEY'RE MAYBE ARE CLOSE TO THEM OR THEY'RE ESTRANGED FROM.

AND I THINK THAT THE CONCEPTION THAT BEING THERE, THAT I BRING SOMETHING SPECIAL TO THIS COMMUNITY THAT ALREADY EXISTS IS -- IS NOT WHAT SUCCESS LOOKS LIKE.

AND JUST BEING ALONGSIDE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALREADY LIVING THROUGH A CRISIS, RESPONDING TO A CRISIS AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

AND I MEAN, I'M TALKING AS IF I'M AN OUTSIDER.

MY EXPERIENCE IS DIFFERENT FROM PEOPLE IN THE FILM, BUT I'VE RAISED MY CHILDREN IN THIS COMMUNITY, AS WELL.

AND SO I CONSIDER THESE MY NEIGHBORS.

SO IT'S JUST A BASIC LIKE -- LIKE LOVE FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT IS ON DISPLAY.

>> COLIN, AND I'LL ASK YOU TO JUMP IN ON THIS ALSO.

YOU TOUCHED ON IT, AND RONNIE DID NOW, THE NOTION OF COMMUNITY.

CLEARLY THE FILM SHOWS WHAT'S BEING DONE HERE AS A PLACE, CREATING A PLACE TO USE DRUGS SAFELY, TO HELP ALL THESE PEOPLE.

I'VE SEEN YOU TACK ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU ALSO WANTED TO COMMUNICATE THIS SENSE OF COMMUNITY.

WHY, AND WHAT IS THE COMMUNITY YOU WANT TO SHOW?

>> WELL, I THINK -- AND I MAY HAVE MENTIONED THIS ALREADY, BUT LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIS NEIGHBORHOOD -- IT WAS A REAL PIP FOR ME TO BE ASKED TO DO A LOT OF FILMING, AND THROUGH THAT I GOT TO HEAR SO MANY AMAZING STORIES.

FOR ME IT'S LIKE KIND OF IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD BEING SURROUNDED BY THOUSANDS OF STORIES OF LIKE HEARTBREAK AND TRAGEDY AND TRAUMA, BUT ALSO RESILIENCE AND COURAGE.

AND THAT IS IN EACH INDIVIDUAL'S LIFE AND ALSO IN THE COMMUNITY ITSELF.

YOU KNOW, WHEN IT WAS ABANDONED BY THE REST OF SOCIETY OR COMMUNITIES LIKE THIS ALL AROUND THE WORLD THAT ARE ABANDONED, I THINK THAT PEOPLE COME TOGETHER AND LEARN TO TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER.

AND FOR ME I THINK THAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD TAUGHT ME MORE ABOUT THAT THAN ANYWHERE, YOU KNOW.

AND THERE'S SO MUCH GOING ON BENEATH THE SURFACE THAT I THINK PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE, AND SO MUCH HEART AND SO MUCH KINDNESS.

AND ALSO I THINK THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO USE DRUGS AND THEY'RE DRAINS ON SOCIETY OR HAVE NO VALUE, AND THAT'S ONE THING I REALLY WANTED TO GET CROSS IS JUST HOW MUCH LIKE PEOPLE LIKE DANA AND NORMA IN THE FILM ARE PEOPLE WHO USE DRUGS, BUT THEY'RE ALSO SAVING LIVES EVERY DAY AND MAKING MEALS FOR COMMUNITY, AND GIVING AS MUCH AS THEY CAN TO THEIR NEIGHBORS.

I THINK DOING MORE FOR THEIR COMMUNITY THAN MOST OF US, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IS I THINK SEEING WHAT A PERSON CAN BRING TO THE NEIGHBORS AS OPPOSED TO GET OUT OF IT.

>> YEAH.

RONNIE, THERE'S A SCENE FAIRLY EARLY ON WHERE A GROUP OF FOLKS ARE THERE, AND THEY'RE BEING TOLD YOU -- YOU ARE WORLD CHANGERS.

AND THEY'RE BEING TAUGHT HOW THEY CAN HELP OTHER PEOPLE, LITERALLY SAVE THEM FROM DEATH.

TALK ABOUT THAT CONCEPT AND THE IDEA OF TELLING THEM THAT -- THEY CAN BE WORLD CHANGERS.

>> YEAH.

I APPRECIATE YOU POINTING THAT OUT.

THAT WAS -- THAT WAS -- WHEN THIS SITE OPENED, I WASN'T A FOUNDING PERSON, I CAME A FEW MONTHS LATER.

ENOUGH AMOUNT OF TIME LATER THAT PEOPLE WERE FEELING THE BURN, LIKE PEOPLE WERE BURNING OUT, PEOPLE WERE GETTING, YOU KNOW -- FEELING THE BURDEN OF SHOULDERING UP THIS CRISIS.

AND THERE WAS A LOT OF INPUT COMING MY WAY AND A LOT -- AND IT WAS MAINLY TO SAY WHAT CHANGES WE NEEDED IN THE SITE.

AND SO I DECIDED AT THAT TIME THAT THE ONE CHANGE THAT WE NEEDED WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WEREN'T -- THAT WE WERE BUILDING EACH OTHER UP AND NOT TEARING EACH OTHER DOWN.

SO I WOULD START OUR WEEKLY STAFF MEETING WITH LET'S FIND SOMETHING GOOD ABOUT OUR CO-WORKER, AS LIKE -- AS WE WORK SIDE BY SIDE EACH WEEK.

IT KIND OF BECAME A RITUAL THAT I EVENTUALLY WROTE INTO WHAT I -- WHAT I COMMUNICATE IN THE FILM.

AND IT WAS IMPORTANT TO -- IT BECAME VALUABLE.

SOME PEOPLE REFER TO IT AS THE RONNIE HUG.

THEY WOULD SHOW UP FOR THAT AFFIRMATION WEEK BY WEEK.

BECAUSE WHEN YOU BEGIN TO NORMALIZE CRISIS, THE IMPORTANCE OF IT CAN BE -- LIKE YOU CAN WEAR DOWN ON THE FOCUS OF THE IMPORTANCE OF IT.

AND TO BE REMINDED OF THAT WEEK BY WEEK THAT THIS IS IMPORTANT WORK, AND I DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE THINKING THAT I WAS THE KIND OF MANAGER OR LEADER THAT WOULD BE HIDING AROUND THE CORNER WANTING -- WAITING FOR THEM TO COMMIT AN INFRACTION THAT I COULD BE DISCIPLINARY.

I WANTED THE OPPOSITE.

I WANTED PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT THEY COULD CHOOSE TO BE -- TO HAVE HIGH STANDARDS, TO CARE FOR EACH OTHER, AND TO BE WORLD CHANGERS BECAUSE THERE IS -- WE'VE BEEN VISITED AT THAT SITE FROM PEOPLE AROUND THE GLOBE, AND IT'S TRUE PEOPLE DO COME TO SEE -- TO WITNESS AND TO GAIN A PART OF THE WISDOM OF THE PEOPLE THERE, YOU KNOW.

>> HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN -- RONNIE, I'LL ASK YOU THIS ALSO.

I THINK IF YOU ASKED PEOPLE ON THE STREET ABOUT WHAT THE MODEL WOULD BE FOR HELPING THOSE ESPECIALLY IN THE TIME OF FENTANYL, ESPECIALLY UP IN VANCOUVER AND THE SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS THEY'RE HAVING THERE, I SUSPECT THEY'D SAY HERE'S THE MODEL, YOU HAVE STAFFERS WHO ARE -- PERHAPS THEY'VE NEVER BEEN DRUG USERS OR HAVE BEEN AND NOW THEY'RE STRAIGHT AND THEY'RE GOOD, AND THEY WILL BE ADMINISTERING TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE DRUG USERS.

BUT THAT'S NOT YOUR MODEL, RIGHT?

YOUR MODEL IS PEOPLE -- THERE'S A TIME AND I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY YOUR WORDS, BUT TALKING ABOUT A TIME TO CHILL AND YOU GOT 30 MINUTES, AND THEN YOU SORT OF GET INTO WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING.

EXPLAIN HOW THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE LITERALLY STRUGGLING, WE SEE THEM SHOOTING UP THEMSELVES WHILE THEY ARE THERE TO HELP OTHERS.

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> JUST A COUPLE OF POINTS OF CLARIFICATION.

THE PERSON MOVING PEOPLE ON WITH THOSE RHYMES, THAT WAS TREY AND NOT MYSELF.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

>> HE GETS CREDIT FOR THOSE LINES.

AND ALSO I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT I'M -- WHEN I'M SPEAKING, I'M SPEAKING IN THE PAST, I'M NOT AT THAT SITE ANYMORE.

I HAVE MY OWN HARM REDUCTION NONPROFIT THAT I'M WORKING ON.

AND SO THERE -- WHAT'S OFTEN OVERLOOKED IN SORT OF A TOP-DOWN CARE MODEL IS THE EXPERTISE OF PEOPLE ACCESSING SERVICES, RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND SO THE PERSON WHO'S THE DRUG USER HAS BEEN THE ONE WHO'S HAD TO -- POTENTIALLY BE HOMELESS, MEMBER IN SHELTERS, ACCESS DETOX SERVICES, WONDER WHERE THEIR FOOD IS, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF STRESSES.

AND WE -- WHEN WE DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT EXPERTISE IN THAT PERSON, THEN WE'RE, AGAIN, FAILING THE MODEL, RIGHT.

AND THIS SITE AND OTHERS LIKE IT REALLY PROVE THAT FACT, THAT THE -- LIKE PAST CONCEPTS TO KIND OF PRESUME THAT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS CARE CAN'T ALSO GIVE CARE IS REALLY -- IS REALLY A FAILURE IN OUR -- IN OUR EFFORTS, AND IT IS A POWERFUL MODEL, AND IT GIVES MEANING TO PEOPLE, AND THEY SHOW UP, THEY HAVE PRIDE, THEY -- THEY'RE A PART OF A COMMUNITY.

AND YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S A POWERFUL MODEL.

>> YEAH.

COLIN -- AND I KNOW YOU HAVE BOTH DEALT WITH THE OBSERVATIONS BY PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING AT THIS SAYING THIS CAN'T BE RIGHT THAT WE'RE DOING THIS, AND I SUSPECT PEOPLE WHO WATCH THIS FILM WILL SEE WHAT I TALKED ABOUT.

THIS IS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING IN, THEY'RE DOING A LOT OF GOOD THINGS, BUT ALSO THEY -- THEY ARE DOING DRUGS RIGHT THERE.

SO WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY WHO SAYS TO YOU, LOOK, I SAW YOUR FILM, AND I RESPECT WHAT YOU'RE DOING, BUT THIS CAN'T BE A GOOD MESSAGE TO SEND OUT THERE.

BECAUSE I SUSPECT THERE WERE SOME THAT WOULD SAY THE MESSAGE IS -- SURE, GO AHEAD, USE DRUGS AS MUCH AS YOU WANT, WE'LL TAKE CARE OF YOU, GO BACK OUT AND USE DRUGS, THAT CAN'T BE GOOD FOR SOCIETY.

WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER TO THAT?

>> YEAH, WELL I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY COMPLICATED.

AND FOR ME, I LOOK AT WHERE WE'RE AT AND I LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE WE HAVE OF WHAT HAS LED US TO HERE AND HOW THAT'S WORKING.

AND I THINK LIKE ESPECIALLY IN THE U.S. WE HAVE OVER 100,000 PEOPLE DYING A YEAR.

CLEARLY SOMETHING'S NOT WORKING, YOU KNOW.

SO THESE -- THESE SITES AND HARM REDUCTION SERVICES HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME AND HEAVILY RESEARCHED.

I THINK THERE'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES A MISCONCEPTION THAT CANADA WELCOMED THESE SERVICES, AND THERE WAS NO CONTROVERSY, BUT THEY'RE EXTREMELY CONTROVERSIAL IN CANADA JUST AS THEY WERE IN ALL THE COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY FIRST BEGAN KIND OF AROUND THE WORLD, RIGHT.

AND REALLY IT'S ABOUT LOOKING AT THE EVIDENCE AND COMMUNITIES ARE LIKE WE DON'T WANT DRUG USE IN OUR STREETS, WE DON'T WANT SYRINGES IN OUR STREETS.

AND THESE KIND OF SERVICES REALLY HELP WITH ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

THEY SAVE TAXPAYERS MONEY.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, THEY SAVE LIVES.

SO I THINK LIKE FOR ME IT WAS -- THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO BRING PEOPLE IN, LOOK, NOT EVERYONE'S GOING TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS, AND I THINK THAT I REALLY TRY AND SHOW BOTH SIDES.

BUT I ALSO REALLY WANT TO LOOK PAST THAT -- WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR MINDS.

I THINK THERE'S BEEN MANY YEARS OF MISINFORMATION ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, AND WE WANT TO SAY JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS, AND CLEARLY THAT'S NOT JUST NOT REALITY.

AND I THINK WHAT THIS FILM DOES IS BRING PEOPLE INTO THIS REALITY, AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL CHANGE SOME PERCEPTIONS AND JUST OPEN MINDS.

I THINK I WOULD JUST ASK PEOPLE TO BE CURIOUS AND, YOU KNOWINGS YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET -- YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A LOT OF ANSWERS FROM THE FILM.

IT'S MORE OF A FILM THAT HOPEFULLY HELPS PEOPLE THINK IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAVE MORE QUESTIONS.

AND THAT'S WHAT I HOPE IS THAT PEOPLE WILL ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS FOR THEMSELVES.

>> RONNIE, WE HAVE ABOUT THREE MINUTES OR SO LEFT HERE.

BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN YOU WATCH THAT AND CERTAINLY WHEN YOU HEAR PEOPLE TALKING IS WE UNDERSTAND THE TOLL ON THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE, BUT I'M WONDERING IF WE UNDERSTAND THE EMOTIONAL TOLL ON THE CAREGIVERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE EVERY DAY TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

YOU'VE LIVED THIS.

TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THAT AND THE EXTENT OF THE TOLL AND ARE THERE MECHANISMS THERE TO HELP PEOPLE GET THROUGH IT?

>> YEAH.

IN APRIL OF 2016, THIS CRISIS WAS DECLARED A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS IN VANCOUVER.

AND THAT HASN'T CHANGED.

AND I SPOKE EARLIER ABOUT THE NORMALIZATION OF CRISIS.

THAT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE TO WORK IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, CONSTANT CRISIS.

AND I MEAN, HARM REDUCTION AND SERVICES FOR SUBSTANCE USERS ARE QUITE A LOW PRIORITY FOR HEALTH AUTHORITIES AND THE CARE FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE -- IN THOSE PROGRAMS IS EVEN A LESSER PRIORITY.

SO I MYSELF, LIKE I HAVE -- I'VE EXPERIENCED BURNOUT, IT'S USUAL PHYSICAL FOR ME.

YOU KNOW, MY BODY BREAKS DOWN, I'VE WITNESSED IT IN A NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND COLLEAGUES.

IT'S -- IT'S -- AND WITH THAT LEVEL OF BURNOUT, THERE'S A RAPID TURNOVER OF STAFF, AND YOU GET INCREASINGLY -- YOU GET INEXPERIENCED STAFF TRAINING BRAND-NEW STAFF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THING.

AND IT SORT OF EXACERBATES THE PROBLEM.

FOR ME THAT'S MY FOCUS IS INTERIOR BLOCK SOCIETY, THE NONPROFIT THAT I FORMED SINCE THEN, IS LIKE THE MODEL THAT WE'VE CHOSEN IS TO SUPPORT THE WORK AND SUPPORT THE WORKERS.

AND IN SOME MANNER BRING SUSTAINABILITY TO THIS FIELD BECAUSE IT'S AN IMPORTANT RESPONSE.

IN LEAVING IT TO, YOU KNOW, TO HOSPITAL SYSTEMS, FIRE, AMBULANCE RESPONSE, THAT'S -- YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME COMMITMENT AS THE COMMUNITY WHO IS SEEING THEIR LOVED ONES AND THEIR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS DYING, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

AND SO, YEAH, BURNOUT IS A REAL THING.

AND SUSTAINABILITY REALLY NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR THE PEOPLE DOING THE WORK.

>> WELL, AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS -- AND COLIN, YOU MENTIONED IT, AND I TALKED ABOUT IT AT THE VERY BEGINNING, IT'S A POWERFUL AND COMPELLING FILM.

COLIN, REAL QUICK, FOR FOLKS WHO ARE WATCHING THIS AND WANT TO SEE IT, HOW ARE THEY GOING -- WHERE DO THEY FIND IT, HOW THEY WATCH THIS?

>> IT'S ON PBS "INDEPENDENT LENS" ON FEBRUARY 13th.

>> MAKE SURE YOU CHECK YOUR LISTINGS, LOOK AT OUR LISTINGS, METROFOCUS.ORG.

AGAIN, AS I SAID, MY COMPLIMENT TO YOU IS THIS -- GREAT ART, GREAT FILMMAKING, GREAT DOCUMENTARIES DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU MENTIONED BEFORE, THEY MAKE US THINK.

THEY DON'T TRY TO MAKE UP OUR MIND FOR US, BUT THEY JUST MAKE US THINK.

AND CERTAINLY YOU WATCH THIS, IT'S POWERFUL, IT'S COMPELLING, IT'S EVOCATIVE, IT'S THOUGHT PROVOKING, IT'S PAINFUL.

IT'S ALL OF THOSE THINGS WHICH I AM SURE THAT YOU WERE BOTH LOOKING FOR WHEN YOU PUT THIS TOGETHER.

ONCE AGAIN, "LOVE IN THE TIME OF FENTANYL."

IT IS A MARVELOUS FILM.

COLIN ASKEY, PRODUCER DIRECTOR, EDITOR, RONNIE GRIGG, SIGNIFICANT FACOR IN THIS.

WANT TO THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR SPENDING TIME WITH US.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

YOU ALL BE WELL NOW.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JACK.

THANKS A LOT.

♪♪ >>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILAMAN D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY --