MetroFocus: February 16, 2023

>>> SHE HAS SAT DOWN WITH SOME OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN HOLLYWOOD FROM SIDNEY POINTIER TO MERYL STREEP TO TOM CRUISE, AND TONIGHT SHE SITS DOWN WITH US.

WORLD RENOWNED HISTORIAN ANNETTE INSDORF IS HERE TO DISH IT ALL.

>>> AND LISTEN IN AS JON STEWART AND MICHAEL SCHUR DEBATE THE FUTURE OF COMEDY IN A POLARIZED AMERICA.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JACK FORD.

FOR THE PAST 35 YEARS, THE 92nd STREET Y HOSTED A REGULAR DISCUSSION SERIES CALLED "REEL PIECES," FOCUSED ON GIVING NEW YORKERS A LOOK AT THE BIGGEST MOVIE PIECE OF OUR TIMES.

THE SERIES, WHICH HAS FEATURED CONVERSATIONS WITH ACTORS AND DIRECTORS AND EARLY PREVIEW SCREENING OF MOVIES NOT YET RELEASED HAS BEEN HOSTED BY ANNETTE INSDORF, A WORLD RENOWNED FILM HISTORIAN, AUTHOR, AND ACADEMIC.

THROUGH HER TIME MODERATING "REEL PIECES," HER WORK AT COLUMBIA, SHE HAS ENACTED WITH COUNTLESS CELEBRITIES, INCLUDING AMONG MANY OTHERS, MERYL STREEP, SIDNEY POINTIER, TOM CRUISE, MARTIN SCORSESE JUST TO NAME A VERY FEW.

JOINING US TONIGHT WITH MORE ON HER REMARKABLE LIFE AND CAREER IS A TRUE NEW YORK TREASURE, THE HOST OF THE 92nd STREET Y'S "REEL PIECES," ANNETTE INSDORF.

WELCOME.

IT'S SO NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE WITH US.

>> PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> THIS IS A FABULOUS SERIES, AND I'M GOING TO GET TO IT IN A MOMENT, BUT FIRST LET ME START WITH YOU.

HOW AND WHEN DID YOU FIRST DEVELOP THIS DEEP PASSION FOR FILMS?

>> I ALWAYS LOVED MOVIES AS A CHILD, AND BECAUSE I WAS BORN IN PARIS, WHEN WE CAME TO THE UNITED STATES, MY FATHER, WHO DIDN'T SPEAK MUCH ENGLISH AT THE TIME, IT WAS FROM MOVIES THAT HE WAS LEARNING ENGLISH.

AND I WENT TO EVERY FILM I COULD AS A CHILD WITH HIM.

AND THE MORE I DID THAT, THE MORE I REALIZED, ESPECIALLY IN MY TEENS, THAT I DIDN'T SIMPLY LOVE THE ENTERTAINMENT AND THE SPECTACLE, BUT THAT THE WAY MOVIES WERE TELLING STORIES -- AND I READ A LOT AT THE TIME, I TELLING STORIES IN AN EQUALLY RICH WAY.

BUT I HAD TO WATCH THEM DIFFERENTLY TO UNDERSTAND HOW VISUAL STORY TELLING WAS TAKING PLACE.

AND THEN WHEN I GOT TO GRAD SCHOOL DOING MY Ph.D IN ENGLISH AT YALE OF ALL PLACES, I REALIZED THAT I WASN'T HAPPY IN THE Ph.D PROGRAM BECAUSE I WAS MISSING SOMETHING.

I HAD THE SENSE THAT ANYTHING I COULD SAY ABOUT A BOOK, A POEM, HAD ALREADY BEEN SAID.

THE MOVIES IN THE '70s, THEY HADN'T BEEN DISCUSSED TO DEATH.

SO I STARTED GOING TO THE YALE FILM SOCIETIES EVERY NIGHT, THE BERKELEY FILM SOCIETY.

AND I WOULD GO TWICE.

SOMETIMES I'D SEE THE FILM TWICE IN A ROW.

THE FIRST TIME TO ENJOY, THE SECOND TIME TAKING NOTES TO SEE HOW THE FILM CREATED MY REACTIONS.

AND I WAS IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.

THE DAY I GOT MY Ph.D IN ENGLISH I WAS HIRED THAT AFTERNOON BY THE ART HISTORY DEPARTMENT AT YALE BECAUSE THEY HAD JUST LOST THE ADJUNCT PROFESSOR WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TEACHING TWO FILM COURSES THE FOLLOWING YEAR.

A LOT OF IT IS LUCK AND I ALSO ALREADY TAUGHT A SEMINAR ON THE FRENCH NEW WAVE AS A GRAD STUDENT, AND IN I WENT.

>> RIGHT PLACE, RIGHT TIME.

AS A STUDENT AT YALE I WENT TO SO MANY OF THOSE SOCIETIES.

THEY PROVIDED YOU WITH WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITIES TO SIT DOWN AND WATCH AND LISTEN AND BE MOVED BY THESE.

LET'S MOVE OURSELF -- AS MENTIONED TAUGHT AT YALE, COLUMBIA, OVERLAPPED FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

HAVE WRITTEN A NUMBER OF BOOKS ABOUT FILMS BUT TALK ABOUT REAL PIECES.

HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?

>> I WAS APPROACHED AROUND 1979-80, INITIALLY WHEN I MOVED TO NEW YORK FROM NEW HAVEN.

BY THE 92nd STREET Y. I WAS WRITING A BOOK AT THE TIME ABOUT FILMING THE HOLOCAUST, WHICH BECAME MY SORT OF LANDMARK STUDY "INDELIBLE SHADOWS, FILMING THE HOLOCAUST", AND THEY ASKED ME TO TALK ABOUT A HOLOCAUST FILM.

AROUND THAT TIME, 1979-80, THERE WEREN'T.

THAT, SHALL WE SAY ELEVATED DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE FILM AND HOLOCAUST.

AFTER THAT, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL.

I COMODERATED A SERIES WITH MICHAEL WEBB THAT DEALT WITH FILM AND POLITICS IN HISTORY, AND I GOT MY OWN SERIES IN 1983 WAS THE FIRST TIME, CRITICS ON CRITICISM AND SCREEN WRITERS AND I REALIZED HOW MUCH I LOVED THE 92 Y AUDIENCES.

THEY WERE LITERAL, CURIOUS, AFFECTIONATE.

THEY WERE PEOPLE ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH A GREAT DEAL FROM THE OTHER ARTS -- FROM LITERATURE, FROM POETRY -- THE POETRY CENTER AT THE Y I USED TO GO TO ON NIGHTS.

AND I WAS ENCOURAGED BY A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SUPERIORS OVER THE YEARS TO SUGGEST THINGS THAT I THOUGHT THE AUDIENCE WOULD APPRECIATE IN MANHATTAN OF ALL PLACES.

AND "REEL PIECES" EMERGED AFTER A CERTAIN TIME BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO INTERVIEW JUST ACTORS, JUST SCREENWRITERS, JUST DIRECTORS, JUST PRODUCERS, AND I HAD ALREADY DONE TWO SERIES WHERE THERE WERE NO GUESTS.

IT WAS JUST ME DISCUSSING THE WORK OF MY BOOKS.

AND WITH REAL PIECES, I SAID, LET ME HAVE FREE REIGN TO INTERVIEW WHOEVER I THINK WILL BE ABLE TO HELP US APPRECIATE AND UNDERSTAND CINEMATIC STORY TELLING, HOW A FILM WAS MADE, WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING FOR US.

AND THE FIRST YEAR WAS EXACTLY -- IT WAS 1987, SO 35 YEARS AGO.

AND I DID -- ONE WEEK WAS THE EDITOR RALPH ROSENBLUM, AND WE SHOWED ANNIE HALL.

THE PRODUCER WAS DAVID PUTNAM.

IT WAS A FANTASTIC WAY TO ENGAGE -- AT THE TIME IT WASN'T CELEBRITY ORIENTED.

THE IDEA WAS TO SHOW A REALLY GOOD MOVIE AND HAVE SOMEONE WHO PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN IT ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT ITS GESTATION, ITS PROCESS, ITS MEANING.

>> TRULY LEARN AND SORT OF MIXING OUR METAPHORS, BUT PULL BACK THE CURTAIN, IF YOU WILL, ON FILMS.

AND THE 92nd STREET Y HAS BEEN FOR SO LONG SO GOOD AT THESE OFFERINGS.

I HAD THE GREAT GOOD FORTUNE TO HOST INTERVIEWS AND PANELS THERE A NUMBER OF YEARS BACK, INCLUDING AFTER I COVERED THE O.J.

SIMPSON TRIAL AND I INTERVIEWED THE PARTICIPANTS OF THAT.

AS YOU SAID, I WAS SO STRUCK BY THE AUDIENCE AND HOW ENGAGED AND ENGAGING THEY WERE.

LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION.

I'M SURE YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS.

I KNOW THIS IS AKIN TO ASKING A PARENT ABOUT THEIR FAVORITE CHILD, SO I WON'T PHRASE IT THAT WAY, BUT GIVE US ONE OF TWO OF YOUR MORE MEMORABLE INTERVIEWS.

WHO WOULD YOU POINT TO?

>> WELL, THE FIRST TIME THAT SIR BEN KINGSLEY WAS MY GUEST -- HE RETURNED AFTERWARDS -- I WAS DUMB STRUCK, ACTUALLY, BY HOW EXTRAORDINARILY ARTICULATE HE WAS.

I'M NOT USED TO INTERVIEWING ACTORS WHO ARE MORE ARTICULATE OF THEIR PROCESS THAN DIRECTORS, AND WRITERS FOR THAT MATTER.

AND HERE WAS SIR BEN KINGSLEY WITH THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WAY OF EXPRESSING WHAT HE DOES AS AN ACTOR AND ALSO WHAT FILMS CAN MEAN IN THE LIVES OF THOSE WHO WATCH THEM.

THE DEEP ENHANCEMENT THAT CAN COME FROM THAT.

SO IF I HAD TO PICK ONLY ONE INTERVIEW TO WATCH AGAIN, I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE ONE.

BUT I ALSO -- I HAVE BEEN SO FORTUNATE.

ALSO, BY THE WAY, ON THAT EVENING, BEN KINGSLEY, HE QUOTED ME, BECAUSE I HAD BEEN ON THE JURY OF THE BERLIN FILM FESTIVAL WITH HIM.

>> RIGHT RKT.

>> AND I SUGGESTED THAT WE HAD TO HAVE SOME SHARED CRITERIA FOR WHAT MAKES A FILM GREAT.

AND HE AGREED.

SO I CAME ONE A PROPOSAL THAT HE ACCEPTED, AND THEN ON STAGE WITH ME THAT NIGHT, HE TOLD MY AUDIENCE, ANNETTE HAS GIVEN US A WAY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CRITERIA SHOULD BE.

I HAD SAID SOMETHING LIKE IT SHOULD BE A GOOD STORY WORTH THE PROVERBIAL PRICE OF ADMISSION.

NUMBER TWO, IT SHOULD USE THE APPROPRIATE CINEMATIC LANGUAGE FOR THE TALE BEING TOLD.

AND NUMBER THREE -- AND THIS IS THE TOUGH ONE -- IT SHOULD OFFER SOME KIND OF ILLUMINATION, AN ENHANCEMENT OF OUR LIVES TO TAKE WITH US AFTER THE FILM IS OVER.

FORGIVE THE CORNINESS, BUT SOMETHING THAT MIGHT MAKE US A BETTER PERSON.

>> I'LL ADD THIS, AND BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE TOO HUMBLE, BUT SIR BEN KINGSLEY SAID SINCE THAT TIME, WHENEVER HE REVIEWS A SCRIPT FOR SOME POTENTIAL WORK FOR HIM, HE SAID, I USE ANNETTE'S THREE GUIDELINES TO DECIDE, IS THIS SOMETHING I WANT TO DO?

THAT'S PRETTY IMPRESSIVE HE HAS AN IMPACT ON YOU, AND YOU HAD AN IMPACT ON HIM.

IT'S ANOTHER THING, SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW YORK CITY -- PEOPLE ALWAYS USE THE TERM HOLLYWOOD JUST AS AN OVERARCHING TERM TO TALK ABOUT THE FILM INDUSTRY.

HOW ABOUT NEW YORK'S IMPACT ON THE FILM INDUSTRY, BACK THEN AND EVEN TODAY?

>> IT IS HUGE.

LET'S JUST ADMIT, I SHOULD, THAT I AM DRAWN PERHAPS MUCH MORE TO INDEPENDENT FILMS NURTURED BY AN EAST COAST SENSIBILITY THAN HOLLYWOOD MAINSTREAM MOVIES, SO I'VE ALWAYS GRAVITATED TO THE FILM OF SIDNEY LUMENT.

I SHOWED THE PAWNBROKER, TO THE FILMS OF WOODY ALLEN.

HE WAS MY GUEST AT LEAST TWICE, POSSIBLY THREE TIMES.

THE FILM OF SCORSESE WHO WAS MY GUEST EARLY ON.

AND I BELIEVE -- WELL, IT GOES FURTHER BACK TO CASSAVETES, WHOSE WORK I SHOW IN MY CLASS AT COLUMBIA MORE THAN THE 92nd STREET Y.

HE WAS THE MAVERICK OF NEW YORK, LOW BUDGET INDY FILMMAKING THAT CAPTURED THE RHYTHM -- NOT JUST OF THE STREETS, BUT THE RHYTHM OF OUR BODIES MOVING THROUGH THE STREETS IN MOVIES LIKE "SHADOWS", HIS FIRST FEATURE BACK AROUND 1959.

SO I DO BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE REASONS "REEL PIECES" REMAINS EXCITING FOR ME AND I HOPE AUDIENCES IS BECAUSE WE'RE IN NEW YORK.

AND EVEN IF I SHOW A FOREIGN FILM OR HOLLYWOOD FILM, THE SENSIBILITY WE BRING TO MOVIES, IT'S A LITTLE BIT SHARPER AND FASTER.

>> BECAUSE WE ARE IN NEW YORK, WE ARE OF NEW YORK, IN MANY WAYS WE ARE NEW YORK.

YEAH, ANNETTE, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE I WOULD LOVE TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT, AND UNFORTUNATELY WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME HERE, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE COME BECOME AND CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION.

ONCE AGAIN, WANT TO REMIND PEOPLE, "REEL PIECES," THE 92nd STREET Y, WHICH DOES REMARKABLE WORK ACROSS THE BOARD, 35 YEARS, STILL COUNTING AND STILL BEING WONDERFUL.

ANNETTE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING WITH YOU AGAIN SOME TIME REAL SOON.

YOU BE WELL NOW.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

BYE-BYE NOW.

>>> GOOD EVENING.

I'M RAPHAEL PI ROMAN.

AS OUR COUNTRY BECOMES MORE POLITICALLY AND MORALLY DIVIDED, THE THINGS WE FIND FUNNY SEEM TO BE DRIFTING APART AS WELL.

LEAVING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE FUTURE OF COMEDY SHOULD LOOK LIKE IN THE UNITED STATES.

TO EXPLORE THAT WE TURN TO COMEDIANS WHOSE OWN WORK -- THE MOST DIVISIVE ASPECTS OF OUR SOCIETY TO GET THEIR TAKE ON WHETHER OR NOT IT'S POSSIBLE TO USE HUMOR TO REAM ACROSS POLITICAL LINES.

LET'S LISTEN IN ON A RECENT CONVERSATION ON THIS TOPIC BETWEEN JON STEWART AND MICHAEL SCHUR, TWO OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL TELEVISION COMEDIANS OF OUR ERA AS PART OF THE LISTENING IN SERIES WITH OUR PARTNER THE 92nd Y.

>> HOW CAN COMEDIANS HELP OUR SOCIETY HEAL, AND HOW CAN WE START ENJOYING THE SAME JOKES REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL IDENTITY?

AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU EVER THINK ABOUT?

>> I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE SAME JOKES MEANS.

>> I THINK IT MEANS CAN WE FIND A GROUP THAT'S SO OUT -- [ LAUGHTER ] THAT EVEN -- NOW, GENERALLY THAT'S BEEN JEWS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S THAT LONGING FOR A CAMARADERIE IN SOCIETY THAT I'M NOT SURE EVER EXISTED.

I THINK IT MAY BE ONE OF THOSE THINGS TO FUZZY NOSTALGIA, BECAUSE I DON'T RECALL, AND I HAVE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS 35 YEARS, ALMOST 40 YEARS, EVER BEING A TIME WHERE AMERICANS WERE UNITED STATES IN THEIR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY AND WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS FUNNY.

>> NO.

NEVER HAPPENED.

>> YEAH.

>> I WILL SAY THIS IN TERMS OF, LIKE, HOW WE GET BACK TO NORMAL OR WHATEVER.

>> RIGHT.

>> I STARTED WORKING AT "SNL" IN '98.

A COUPLE YEARS LATER, MY FRIEND ROB LEFT TO GO TO L.A.

HE WAS RUNNING WEEKEND UPDATE, AND I WAS ASKED TO RUN WEEKEND UPDATE AFTER HE LEFT, AND I THOUGHT, WELL, THIS SOUNDS FUN.

FUNNY, SILLY NEWS JOKES.

I CAN DO THAT.

THAT WAS A -- I TOOK THE JOB ON, LIKE, AUGUST 25th, 2001.

AND MY FIRST SHOW OF FUNNY -- >> DON'T SPOIL IT FOR EVERYBODY!

>> SHOULD HAVE SAID SPOILER ALERT.

I BLEW IT.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SUCH A GOOD CALLBACK.

MY FIRST SHOW, MY FIRST WEEKEND UPDATE FOR FUNNY SILLY NEWS JOKES WAS THE 9/11 SHOW, AND WE HAD A BUNCH OF MEETINGS, AND WE HAD ALL -- WE ASKED A LOT OF THE SAME QUESTIONS WE'VE ALL BEEN ASKING RECENTLY BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

HOW CAN WE GET BACK TO NORMAL?

HOW CAN WE TELL JOKES?

ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF.

THE ONLY THING WE COULD THINK OF TO DO WAS TO JUST DO WEEKEND UPDATE, JUST MAKE A BUNCH OF JOKES ABOUT WHATEVER WAS IN THE NEWS, BRING A COUPLE ACTORS ON IN SILLY COSTUMES, PUT ONE FOOT FROM FRONT OF THE OTHER AND TRUST THIS IS SOMETHING PEOPLE WANT.

THE FIST JOKE WE DID ON THAT SHOW, AND IN A MOMENT OF FRAYED NERVES AND MAXIMUM ANXIETY -- BY THE WAY, THIS IS ALSO TWO WEEKS BEFORE ANTHRAX WAS FOUND IN OUR BUILDING.

WE ALL HAD TO LEAVE AND DO THIS AGAIN.

>> AGAIN, IN MY DEFENSE -- [ LAUGHTER ] >> SO, THE FIRST JOKE WE TOLD WAS THE CIA NOW BELIEVES THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN IS PROBABLY HIDING OUT SOME PLACE THAT'S VERY DARK AND WHERE THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE, SO THEY HAVE BEGUN SEARCHING THEATERS SHOWING THE MOVIE "GLITTER".

MARIAH CAREY VEHICLE WHICH HAD COME OUT ONE WEEK EARLIER.

IT'S A PRETTY GOOD JOKE.

IT'S NOT THE BEST JOKE OF ALL TIME.

>> I LIKE IT.

>> JIMMY FALLON TOLD THAT JOKE, AND THERE WAS A SECONDS HESITATION AND A CATHARTIC RAPTUROUS LAUGH CAME OUT OF THE AUDIENCE.

IT WAS LIKE, THAT'S WHAT WE DO, TELL DUMB JOKES ABOUT MARIAH CAREY MOVIES.

WHATEVER IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY AT TIMES OF NATIONAL STRIFE AND TENSION, THE ANSWER WHEN IT COMES TO COMEDY IS YOU JUST START DOING COMEDY AGAIN.

PEOPLE WILL GO BACK TO COMEDY CLUBS AND THEY'LL FILL UP AGAIN AS THEY DID AFTER 9/11, AND TV SHOWS WILL COME OUT, AND THERE WILL BE INTERESTING THINGS THAT HAPPEN, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, "TED LASSO" CAME OUT IN JUNE OF THE FIRST YEAR OF THIS PANDEMIC, IT WAS JUST EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA NEEDED AND WANTED IN THAT MOMENT.

SO THINGS WILL CHANGE AND SHIFT AND WILL EVOLVE LIKE THEY ALWAYS DO, BUT WE WON'T STOP WANTING FUNNY THINGS, AND PEOPLE WILL KEEP DOING FUNNY THINGS AND EVENTUALLY IT WILL NEVER GO BACK TO EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS.

I THINK THAT'S GOOD.

I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD EVER GO BACK TO EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS, BECAUSE IT'S A CONSTANT ENDLESS MARCH OF CHANGE AND PROGRESS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

SO, WILL IT EVER BE THE SAME?

WILL WE EVER ENJOY THE SAME JOKES?

NO, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD.

IF YOU GO BACK TO AN OLD STANDUP SET YOU DID FROM THE LATE '80s, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO WANT TO DO THOSE JOKES ANYMORE.

AYE SEEN THOSE JOKES.

>> NO, I WOULDN'T DO THOSE JOKES ON THE ROAD.

PEOPLE PAY GOOD MONEY TO SEE -- WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO HEAR SADDAM HUSSEIN STUFF.

I GET THAT.

>> THE POINT IS COMEDY, ALL OF IT HAS AN EXPIRATION DATE ON IT.

THE MINUTE YOU TELL A JOKE, THE CLOCK STARTING TICKING TO A POINT THAT JOKE WILL NO LONGER BE FUNNY OR BECOME UNPLEASANT OR OFFENSIVE.

THE GOAL SHOULD NEVER BE, I THINK, TO DO THE SAME JOKES.

THE GOAL SHOULD BE TO DO BETTER MORE INTERESTING JOKES THAT REFLECT WHEREVER WE ARE NOW.

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.

AND IT'S THE KIND OF THING -- THE OTHER THING I WOULD BE CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR OPINION ON IS HOW YOU THINK THE CHANGING VALUES OF SOCIETY SHOULD CHANGE WHAT COMEDIANS DO.

I'M TORN.

THERE'S A PART OF ME -- I DON'T KNOW IF I'M MORE COMEDIAN THAN MAN SOMETIMES, WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALL GOTTEN SO RELENTLESS IN OUR CRITICISMS OF EACH OTHER BECAUSE WE'RE ALL AWARE OF WHAT WE ALL THINK NOW IN A WAY.

TWITTER AND SOCIAL MEDIA IS LIKE -- WHAT WAS THE MOVIE MEL GIBSON, HE WAS LIKE A DOCTOR AND -- OR NO, HE GOT ESP AND HE COULD TELL -- >> "WHAT WOMEN WANT."

>> SORRY.

>> I DID NOT THINK THAT MOVIE WAS GOING TO COME UP TONIGHT.

>> YEAH.

I BRING IT UP AT EVERY -- BUT THAT'S TWITTER.

TWITTER IS WE ALL KNOW HAVE ESP, AND SO THAT -- YOU HEAR THAT WHEN YOU DO A COMEDY PERFORMANCE, AND THIS IS A LIVE PERFORMANCE, WHETHER YOU WERE WRITING THE JOKES FOR "SNL."

IN THE AUDIENCE -- AN AUDIENCE IS AN ORGANISM.

IT'S LIKE A BORG.

AND YOU COULD BE KILLING IT, BUT I COULD ALWAYS IN AN AUDIENCE FIND SOME PEOPLE THAT JUST AREN'T HAVING IT.

DON'T LIKE ME, DON'T LIKE THE ACT, DON'T KNOW WHY.

BUT NOW THAT THERE'S SOCIAL MEDIA, I DO KNOW WHY.

>> SOCIAL MEDIA IS RIDING HOME FROM THE SHOW WITH THE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T LIKE IT IN THE BACK, AND JUST GOING LIKE -- [ LAUGHTER ] TRYING NOT TO LET THAT AFFECT YOUR WORK.

>> YEAH.

>> OR AFFECT WHAT YOU DO OR AFFECT -- YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS USED TO HAVE A JOKE THAT IT'S ALWAYS FUNNY TILL IT HAPPENS TO YOUR GUY.

YOU KNOW, MADE A JOKE ABOUT A DEMOCRAT AND THE AUDIENCE WOULD ALWAYS GO, HEY, AND YOU'D BE LIKE, HMM.

>> YEAH, SORRY MAN.

>> I THINK THAT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE PROBLEM WITH COMEDY.

THEY SAY LAUGHTER'S THE BEST MEDICINE, BUT LAUGHTER IS ALSO A TOXIN.

BECAUSE IN -- IT IS IN ESSENCE PROVOCATIVE.

IT'S PART OF WHAT IT DOES.

IT'S NOT HERE TO HEAL YOU.

AND IT'S NOT HERE TO GENERAL SET -- UPSET YOU.

IT'S JUST HERE.

SO THAT'S I THINK THE THING YOU GRAPPLE WITH AS TIMES CHANGE.

>> YEAH, I WOULD ALSO SAY, THOUGH, THAT THE -- ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT THE AGE WE LIVE IN IS THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES CAN NOW EXPRESS THEMSELVES, AND THAT IS -- >> EXACTLY.

>> I AM ON TWITTER WAY TOO MUCH.

I TWEET WAY TOO OFTEN.

I HAVE BEEN AT TIMES LIKE, THIS IS TOXIC, I'M LEAVING, GOOD-BYE.

AND TWO WEEKS LATER I'M LIKE, I HAVE A JOKE ABOUT PAUL RYAN AND I REALLY NEED TO GET IT OUT OF MY BRAIN, AND IF I DON'T I'M GOING TO EXPLODE.

AND I GO BACK AND FALL BACK INTO THE OLD HABITS.

I REALIZED MANY YEARS AGO THAT THE PROBLEM ISN'T TWITTER.

>> YES.

>> THE PROBLEM IS ME.

SO I TURNED MY MENTIONS OFF, AND I DON'T INTERACT WITH ANYBODY, DON'T RESPOND TO ANYBODY.

I DON'T SEE THE THINGS THAT WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO TROLL ME OR SAY YOU'RE AN IDIOT, YOUR SHOWS SUCK -- I'M SURE IT'S STILL HAPPENING.

I DON'T SEE IT.

PART OF THE PROBLEM OF THE ECHO CHAMBER UNIVERSE WE LIVE IN IS WE'RE PLAYING RADIO STATIONS THAT ONLY HAS THE MUSIC WE WANT TO HEAR.

THAT HAS ITS OWN DANGERS.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE EXPRESSION OF THE GRIEVANCE, I THINK I'D RATHER LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES GET TO AIR THEM AND THEY GET HEARD.

WE USED TO LI IN A WORLD WHERE NEITHER OF THEM WERE TRUE.

>> PEOPLE AIRED THEM, YOU JUST DIDN'T HEAR THEM.

>> THEY AIRED THEM ALONE IN THEIR HOUSES, AND THAT IS NOT A GOOD WORLD EITHER.

SOMETIMES WHEN I SEE PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT THE WORLD WORKS NOW, I UNDERSTAND IT AND I SEE THOSE GEARS GRINDING AND I THINK AT TIMES THE PENDULUM MAYBE HAS SWUNG TOO FAR IN CERTAIN DIRECTIONS AND CERTAIN WAYS.

I ALSO THINK I WOULD FAR RATHER LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES ABOUT STRUCTURAL POWER, WHO HAVE BEEN MARGINALIZED AND NEVER HAD A VOICE, THOSE PEOPLE HAVE A VOICE NOW IN ANY NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

I THINK IT'S BETTER ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.

>> RIGHT, THE DEMOCRATIZATION OF GRIEVANCE.

>> YES, EXACTLY.

>> I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND, FOR COMEDIANS, WHEN THEY COMPLAIN -- AGAIN, THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER CONVERSATION.

BUT I MAKE MY LIVING TALKING -- LIKE, THAT'S WHAT I DO.

I'VE DONE IT FOR A LONG TIME.

I WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO THEN COMPLAIN TO BE LIKE, ARE YOU TALKING -- TO ME?

I MEAN, BASICALLY THAT'S WHAT WE DO.

MY POINT IS, TALKING BUT WITH GRACE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE ALL HAVE TO REALIZE, THIS IS FAIR GAME, LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT A WOKE MOB THAT WILL COME AFTER YOU FOR A JOKE THEY THINK IS INTEMPERATE TO A DISADVANTAGED GROUP OR A RIGHT WING MOB THAT IS GOING TO COME AFTER YOU BECAUSE YOU WANT TO TEACH ABOUT HARRYET TUBMAN.

BUT THE TRUTH OF THE WORLD, YOU REALLY WANT TO STEP IN SOME -- MAKE FUN OF BTS.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> MICHAEL SCHUR, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TONIGHT PHILOSOPHICALLY SPEAKING?

IF TERM OF ETHICS AND WRITING A BOOK, I DON'T WANT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE US WITH THAT WILL CHANGE OUR LIVES?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> I -- I THINK THE ESSENCE OF THE SHOW "THE GOOD PLACE", AND OF THIS BOOK IS THAT WHAT IS IMPORTANT ULTIMATELY IS THAT YOU CARE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WHETHER WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS GOOD OR BAD.

I THINK THE PROBLEM WITH A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WE SEE, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE IN POWER, PEOPLE BORN ON THIRD BASE, THOUGHT THEY HIT A TRIP AND THEN RETIRED TO THEIR PALM BEACH ESTATE IS THAT NOT ONLY DO THEY NOT CARE AT ALL, THEY ENJOY FLAUNTING THE FACT THAT THEY DON'T CARE, RIGHT?

AND THE PATH TO IMPROVEMENT, IF THERE IS SUCH A THING, BEGINS WITH A VERY SIMPLE DECISION, WHICH IS I'M GOING TO DECIDE I CARE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WHETHER WHAT I'M DOING IS GOOD OR BAD, AND THAT MEANS I'M GOING TO TRY TO BE BETTER.

KNOWING THAT YOU ARE TRYING MEANS KNOWING THAT YOU WILL FAIL, YOU WILL BLOW IT ALL THE TIME.

YOU WILL STEP IN IT.

YOU WILL MAKE FUN OF BTS AT THE WRONG MOMENT AND HIDE IN YOUR HOUSE THREE WEEKS.

YOU WILL CAUSE PEOPLE PAIN, ANGUISH AND SUFFERING WHEN DUH NOT INTEND TO.

AND WHEN THOSE THINGS HAPPEN, THE TEMPTATION IS TO NOT CARE.

BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, I CARED AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED.

I GOT PUNCHED IN THE FACE.

AND THE ONLY REAL CONCLUSION I'VE COME TO IN ALL OF THIS STUFF, READING ALL THIS STUFF AND TALKING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS WITH ALL THE PEOPLE I'VE TALKED ABOUT IT WITH IS THAT THE ONLY THING YOU CAN CONTROL IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU CARE.

WHETHER OR NOT YOU CARE IF WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS GOOD OR BAD.

YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE THAT DECISION, AND THEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY DECIDE YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO BE GOOD, AND YOU THEN MAYBE HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF LEARNING FROM THE MISTAKES YOU WILL INEVITABLY MAKE.

THAT'S THE ETHOS OF THE SHOW AND THIS BOOK I WROTE.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,