MetroFocus: February 22, 2023

>>> TONIGHT, THE FIVE BOROUGH HOUSING MOVEMENT.

COULD THIS BOLD IDEA HELP SOLVE NEW YORK'S ONGOING HOUSING CRISIS?

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JACK FORD.

NEW YORK IS FACING A MASSIVE HOUSING CRISIS BY VIRTUALLY EVERY MEASURE IMAGINABLE.

ONE OF THE PROPOSALS TO TACKLE THE PROBLEM IS TURNING EMPTY MANHATTAN OFFICE SPACE INTO AFFORDABLE HOMES FOR NEW YORKERS.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL AND MAYOR ADAMS BACK THE IDEA, WHICH COULD INVIGORATE MIDTOWN NEIGHBORHOODS AND PROVIDE RELIEF TO OUTER-BOROUGH RESIDENTS PRICED OUT OF THE CITY.

SO TOO DO BUSINESS, LABOR AND CIVIC AND RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES CALLED THE FIVE BOROUGH HOUSING MOVEMENT WHICH PLANS TO KEEP UP THE PRESSURE TO SEE THIS IDEA THROUGH.

JOHN SANCHEZ IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.

HE JOINS US TO DISCUSS THE MOVEMENT AND THE CITY'S HOUSING CRISIS.

WELCOME.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> LET'S START OFF BY HAVING YOU GIVE US A SENSE OF THE SCOPE OF THE HOUSING PROBLEM IN NEW YORK.

>> THE SCOPE OF THE HOUSING CRISIS IN NEW YORK IS MASSIVE.

WE NEED TO BUILD ABOUT 500,000 NEW UNITS IN THE NEXT DECADE TO KEEP UP WITH DEMAND.

THERE'S AN IMMENSE SHORTAGE OF HOUSING.

IN THE LAST DECADE WE CREATED 800,000 JOBS BUT ONLY HOUSING FOR 200,000 PEOPLE.

THERE'S A SHORTAGE.

IF YOU LOOK AT MANHATTAN, THE RENT IS ABOUT $5,000.

PEOPLE ARE FEELING THE CRUNCH.

HIGH INFLATION.

FOR THIS PERIOD, NEW YORK HASN'T BEEN A LEADER IN BUILDING HOUSING.

WE HAVE BEEN A NATIONAL -- WE HAVE BEEN FALLING SHORT OF BUILDING HOUSING.

WE HAVEN'T BEEN A NATIONAL LEADER IN BUILDING HOUSING.

WE NEED TO RETURN TO THE TIME WE WERE.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

WHY DO YOU THINK AS YOU MENTIONED, WAGES GOING UP, JOB EXPLOSION, AND YET HOUSING HAS NOT KEPT PACE IN NEW YORK, WHY DO YOU THINK?

>> A LOT OF THE HOUSING AND THE RULES THAT GOVERN HOUSING ARE LAWS THAT WERE FROM 60 YEARS AGO.

NEW YORK CITY ZONING RESOLUTION IS FROM 1961 THAT ALLOWS BUILDINGS TO BE BUILT OR NOT BUILT.

WE HAVE STATE RULES THAT LIMIT HOW MUCH HOUSING CAN BE IN AN APARTMENT.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE FAR CAP.

A LOT OF THE OUTDATED RULES FROM THE STATE AND CITY ARE FINALLY CATCHING UP TO US.

BECAUSE WE WERE RELYING ON INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE '20s AND '30s, THAT'S NO LONGER SUFFICIENT.

>> GIVE US A SENSE OF YOUR GROUP.

WHO ARE SOME OF THE PARTICIPANTS?

>> OUR GROUP IS A DIVERSE COALITION OF NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS, LABOR GROUPS, NAACP, GRANT CENTRAL PARTNERSHIP, GROUPS FROM AROUND THE CITY THAT WANT TO SEE MORE HOUSING BEING BUILT AND MAKE SURE THERE'S AN AFFORDABILITY COMPONENT AS WELL.

IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT THAT THIS AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS IN MANHATTAN SOUTH OF 96th STREET.

>> WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

>> NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING BEING DEVELOPED.

HIGH OPPORTUNITY SOUTH OF 96th HAVEN'T PROVIDED AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

IT'S IMPORTANT PEOPLE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE NEAR TRANSIT, NEAR JOB HUBS, LIVE NEAR THE CULTURAL AMENITIES IN MANHATTAN.

THAT WAY WE CAN HAVE NEIGHBORHOOD INCOME DIVERSITY.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION.

THE IDEA OF LET'S TAKE EMPTY OFFICE SPACE AND CONVERT IT TO HOUSING SPACE.

WE KNOW WE HAVE HEARD THAT PROPOSAL FLOATED IN THE PAST, BUT NOTHING HAS REALLY HAPPENED.

WHY DO YOU THINK NOW MIGHT BE THE TIME TO ACTUALLY MAKE THAT TAKE PLACE?

>> THE POST-PANDEMIC ENVIRONMENT CHANGED EVERYTHING.

WE ARE SEEING THAT 50% OF EMPLOYEES AT MAJOR EMPLOYERS ARE GOING INTO THE OFFICE ON A HYBRID SCHEDULE.

18% OF MAJOR EMPLOYEES ARE EXPECTING TO SHRINK THEIR REAL ESTATE FOOTPRINT.

THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY.

MIDTOWN HAS CHANGED.

BECAUSE OF THE DIRE HOUSING CRISIS WE FACE, HAVING VACANT OFFICES BE AVAILABLE FOR HOUSING, IT SEEMS AS A NO BRAINER.

INTERESTING, IN FACT, THE STATE AND CITY HAVE ALLOWED OFFICE CONVERSIONS.

THERE WAS A PROGRAM IN THE MID '90s TO ALLOW CONVERSIONS SOUTH OF MURRAY STREET IN THE FINANCIAL DISTRICT.

IT YIELDED 13,000 UNITS.

WE WANT TO SEE A BIGGER PROGRAM THAT HAS SOME AFFORDABILITY TIED TO IT.

>> I KNOW FROM LOOKING AT EARLIER PROPOSALS THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, ONE OF THE BIGGEST HURDLES WAS THE NOTION OF THE COST OF THOSE CONVERSIONS.

IS THAT STILL A MAJOR HURDLE?

DOES YOUR GROUP THINK THERE IS SOME ABILITY TO MAKE THAT MORE REASONABLE AND MORE REALISTIC?

>> ACTUALLY, THE COST OF CONVERSION IS ABOUT $50 TO $150 LESS PER SQUARE FOOT FOR NEW BUILD.

IT'S MORE FINANCIALLY VIABLE.

OF COURSE, IT WILL BE BUILDING SPECIFIC.

SOME BUILDINGS HAVE LARGE FLOOR PLATES AND IT WILL BE EXPENSIVE TO CONVERT.

WE ARE SEEKING TO ALLOW THE STATE TO GIVE BUILDING OWNERS THE OPTION.

RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE LIMITED IN WHETHER YOU CAN CONVERT OR NOT BASED ON THE YEAR YOUR BUILDING WAS BUILT OR THE LOCATION IT IS.

>> I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION THAT BOTH GOVERNOR HOCHUL AND MAYOR ADAMS SEEM TO BE ON BOARD WITH THESE PROPO PROPOSALS.

THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.

WE HAVE TO GET TO THAT POINT.

WHAT ABOUT THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND THE CITY COUNCIL?

WHAT'S YOUR SENSE AS TO WHETHER THEY WOULD BE ON BOARD WITH THIS PROPOSAL?

>> WHAT'S ENCOURAGING ABOUT THIS ISSUE IS THAT IT'S UNITING PEOPLE ACROSS THE IDEOLOGICAL SPECTRUM.

WE HAVE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS SAYING MANHATTAN NEEDS TO DO MORE AND ALLOW MORE HOUSING.

WE HAVE MEMBERS OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE ALSO SAYING THE SAME THING.

IT'S AN ISSUE THAT EVERYONE CAN GET AROUND.

WE REALIZE WE HAVE VACANT SPACE IN MANHATTAN.

LET'S ALLOW HOUSING TO BE BUILT THERE.

SO FAR, THE RECEPTION HAS BEEN WARM ON ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE FEW THINGS IN HOUSING THAT'S NOT CONTROVERSIAL THAT HAS A BROAD BASE OF SUPPORT.

>> YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT SO MANY OF THE RULES AND REGULATIONS ARE ANTIQUATED, DECADES AGO.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT FIRST STEPS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE TAKEN HERE TO ALLOW THESE TYPES OF CONVERSIONS TO TAKE PLACE WITH REGARD TO RULES AND REGULATIONS?

>> YEAH.

THE FIRST THING IS CHANGING THE MULTIPLE DWELLING ON THE STATE LEVEL.

IT LIMITS WHERE OFFICES CAN BE BUILT AND WHAT YEAR TO QUALIFY.

THE SECOND THING IS A 1961 LAW CALLED THE FAR CAP.

IT LIMITS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF A BUILDING BASED ON HOW BIG THE LOT IS.

THIS IS A PRE-CIVIL RIGHTS ERA LAW WHEN NEW YORK WAS DIFFERENT.

A MILLION LESS PEOPLE WERE IN NEW YORK.

A LOT OF BUILDINGS THAT NEW YORKERS HERALD FOR THEIR ABILITY TO PROVIDE STABILITY WERE GRANDFATHERED IN.

FOR EXAMPLE, MANHATTAN PLAZA IN HELL'S KITCHEN, THAT COULDN'T BE BUILT TODAY BECAUSE OF THAT CAP.

TRACY TOWER IN THE BRONX COULDN'T BE BUILT TODAY BECAUSE OF THAT CAP.

THERE'S NO RHYME OR REASON FOR THE STATE TO LIMIT NEW YORK CITY'S ABILITY TO DETERMINE, WHERE DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE A DENSE BUILDING, WHERE DOES IT NOT MAKE SENSE?

RIGHT NOW THE HANDS ARE TIED BY THE STATE RULES.

>> IF, IN FACT, THOSE RULES ARE ABLE TO BE CHANGED TO ALLOW THIS TO MOVE FORWARD, WHAT'S YOUR ESTIMATION AS TO HOW MANY UNITS WE MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT HERE IN TERMS OF THE DEVELOPING, RECONFIGURING, REPURPOSING, IF YOU WILL, THE ONE SPACE INTO THE RESIDENTIAL SPACE?

>> WHEN IT COMES TO OFFICES, BOTH THE GOVERNOR AND MAYOR'S ESTIMATES ARE 18 TO 20,000 NEW APARTMENTS OVER THE COURSE OF A DECADE.

THAT PROVIDES HOMES FOR 40,000 NEW YORKERS OVER THE COURSE OF A DECADE.

WE REALIZE NOT EVERY BUILDING WILL CONVERT TO RESIDENTIAL.

JUST GIVING THE OPTION IS IMPORTANT.

20,000 UNITS IN MANHATTAN SOUTH OF 96th STREET WITH 4,000 OF THEM BEING AFFORDABLE, THAT ALMOST IS MORE THAN WHAT MANHATTAN PRODUCED IN THE PAST DECADE.

JUST THROUGH OFFICES.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT NEW CONSTRUCTION OPPORTUNITIES.

>> IF THIS WERE TO HAPPEN -- WE KNOW ONE OF THE -- GOOD NEWS AND BAD NEWS ABOUT GETTING THINGS DONE IN NEW YORK IS THAT IT TAKES TIME.

THE GOOD NEWS IS, PEOPLE WILL BE CAREFUL, MAKE SURE IT'S THE RIGHT THING, IT'S BEING DONE RIGHT.

BAD NEWS, BECAUSE OF THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME.

IS THERE ANY TYPE OF A TIME LINE HERE, ANY PROJECTION AS TO IF EVERYTHING FALLS INTO PLACE, WHEN WE COULD SEE SOME OF THESE CONVERSIONS STARTING TO TAKE PLACE?

>> WELL, STEP ONE IS TO CHANGE STATE RULES.

STEP TWO IS TO WORK WITH THE CITY TO SEE WHAT ARE SOME REGULATIONS THAT COULD BE LIFTED TO ALLOW THIS TO SPEED UP THE PROCESS.

REALISTICALLY, AN OFFICE CONVERSION CAN TAKE 12 TO 18 MONTHS.

IF EVERYTHING IS ALIGNED, WE CAN SEE OFFICES BEING CONVERTED TO APARTMENTS IN 2025.

>> I SUSPECT YOU ARE SEEING SOME SKEPTICS OUT THERE AND SOME PEOPLE LOOKING AT THIS CAREFULLY.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF YOU WERE HEARING SOME PEOPLE SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS SOUNDS LIKE IT'S JUST A FRONT FOR GIVING DEVELOPERS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY HERE.

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THOSE SKEPTICS?

>> TO THOSE SKEPTICS, I WOULD HOPE THEY REALIZE WE HAVE MORE THAN 70,000 NEW YORKERS LIVING IN HOMELESS SHELTERS TODAY.

THE CRISIS IS SO DIRE THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT EVERY TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX.

WE REALIZE OFFICE CONVERSIONS WON'T SOLVE THE HOUSING CRISIS.

BUT THE ABILITY TO ALLOW 20,000 NEW APARTMENTS IN VACANT OFFICE SPACES IS CRITICAL.

OF COURSE, BUILDING OWNERS ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR INVESTMENTS ARE VIABLE.

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T GO BANKRUPT.

BUT THEY WANT TO PROVIDE HOUSING.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S INSISTENCE THERE BE AFFORDABILITY THROUGH A TAX INCENTIVE IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE WEALTHIEST NEIGHBORHOODS IN NEW YORK CITY HAVE NOT DONE THEIR FAIR SHARE OF PROVIDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

IT'S CAUSING PRESSURE IN THE OUTER BOROUGHS.

PEOPLE MOVE TO NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE BRONX, QUEENS, BROOKLYN.

IT'S IMPORTANT THAT EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD DOES ITS FAIR SHARE.

WE CAN'T HAVE ALL OF THE OTHER BOROUGHS DOING THEIR FAIR SHARE AND MANHATTAN IS EXCLUDED.

>> WHAT ABOUT THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS, THOSE HIGH-END NEIGHBORHOODS WHO AS YOU SAID HAVE NOT DONE THEIR FAIR SHARE?

YOU CAN ANTICIPATE THERE'S GOING TO BE PUSHBACK, I WOULD IMAGINE, FROM THERE.

WHAT'S THE PLAN HOW TO HANDLE THAT?

>> IN FACT, I THINK THE PENDULUM IS SWINGING.

COMMUNITY BOARD 4 IN MANHATTAN RELEASED A PLAN THAT SHOWED LOCATIONS WHERE THEY COULD IDENTIFY THOUSANDS OF NEW UNITS OF HOUSING, INCLUDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

WE ARE SEEING A PARADIGM SHIFT.

THE MANHATTAN BOROUGH PRESIDENT RELEASED A REPORT DETAILING LOCATIONS THAT COULD ALLOW FOR MORE HOUSING, INCLUDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS NOW THERE'S A GROWING ACCEPTANCE FROM ELECTED LEADERS AND EVEN PEOPLE ON THE GROUND THAT WE NEED TO DO OUR FAIR SHARE.

BUT ALSO, THIS IS A DESIRED GOAL TO HAVE DIVERSE NEIGHBORHOODS, BOTH BY INCOME, RACE AND CLASS.

>> LAST QUESTION FOR YOU.

IF SOMEBODY MIGHT BE LISTENING TO THIS CONVERSATION AND SAYING, BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF THE BUSINESS HOUSING MARKET COMES BACK POST AWAY WITH SO MUCH OF THEIR OFFICE SPACE HERE, WON'T THAT PRESENT A PROBLEM FOR US?

WHAT'S THE ANSWER TO THAT?

>> IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE GRAND SCALE OF THE NEW YORK CITY OFFICE MARKET.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 600 MILLION SQUARE FEET.

EVEN IF THE 20,000 UNITS ARE CREATED, THAT WOULD BE LESS THAN 5% OF THE TOTAL OFFICE MARKET IN NEW YORK CITY.

IT'S A SMALL DENT.

NEW YORK CITY HAS A GREAT FUTURE.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE COMMERCIAL SPACE BEING DEVELOPED.

WE JUST WANT TO HAVE THE OPTION TO SEE HOUSING AS PART OF THAT.

>> JOHN SANCHEZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE FIVE BOROUGH HOUSING MOVEMENT, IT'S AN INTERESTING PROPOSAL AND PLAN.

WE WILL KEEP IN TOUCH TO SEE HOW IT CONTINUES TO MOVE FORWARD.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR SPENDING TIME WITH US.

YOU BE WELL.

>> THANK YOU, JACK.

YOU TOO.

>>> WILDFIRES, HURRICANES, COASTAL FLOODS.

THERE'S A GENERATION OF AMERICANS WHO HAVE GROWN UP WITH A FIRSTHAND VIEW OF THE DEVASTATING AFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND EXTREME WEATHER.

NOW THAT GENERATION IS OF VOTING AGE.

MORE AND MORE YOUNG PEOPLE SAY THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUE OF OUR TIME.

OUR NEXT GUEST IS PART OF THAT GENERATION.

VIC BARRETT WAS 12 WHEN HIS HOME WAS HIT BY HURRICANE SANDY, AN EVENT HE REMEMBERS VIVIDLY.

SINCE THEN, HE DEDICATED MOST OF HIS YOUNG LIFE TO CLIMATE ACTIVISM.

HE SPOKE BEFORE THE U.N.

HE IS ONE OF 21 YOUNG PLAINTIFFS CURRENTLY SUING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FOR FAILING TO PROTECT THEM FROM THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE, ALLEGING THAT IT'S IN VIOLATION OF THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

VIC BARRETT JOINS US NOW AS PART OF OUR ONGOING INITIATIVE REPORT ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND ITS SOLUTIONS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> I REALLY WANT TO GET INTO THE NOTION OF CLIMATE ACTIVISM AND BEING A YOUTH-LED MOVEMENT.

THIS SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING EVERYBODY SHOULD BE INVESTED IN.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHY WOULD YOU SAY YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE A UNIQUE INTEREST?

>> I THINK YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE AN INHERENT CARE ABOUT THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

NO GENERATION BEFORE US HAS HAD SUCH AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT.

MOST SCIENTISTS AGREE THAT 350 PARTS PER MILLION OF CARBON IN THE ATMOSPHERE IS WHAT CAN EXIST FOR A SAFE AND STABLE CLIMATE.

EVEN WHEN I WAS BORN IN 1999, WE WERE AT 370 PARTS PER MILLION.

TODAY, WE ARE AT 420 PARTS PER MILLION.

YOUNG PEOPLE ARE BEING BORN EVERY DAY INTO A WORLD THAT'S TECHNICALLY NOT REALLY CAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A HEALTHY CLIMATE FOR THEM.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, THAT'S INTERESTING THE WAY YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

YOU KNOW WHAT THE CARBON MONOXIDE LEVELS ARE PARTS PER MILLION.

THAT'S NOT A WAY YOUNG PEOPLE USED TO TALK.

TELL ME ABOUT HOW YOU SEE THE MOVEMENT GROWING, ESPECIALLY WITH SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE NOW OF VOTING AGE.

>> I THINK THAT THE CLIMATE MOVEMENT IS REALLY SPECIAL BECAUSE IT'S SUCH AN INTERSECTIONAL ISSUE.

CLIMATE CHANGE HAS DO WITH JUSTICE AND REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

IT HAS TO DO WITH CLASSISM AND IF PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO PICK UP BABY FORMULA OR THE FOOD THEY NEED.

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A MASSIVE ISSUE THAT IS A PART OF ALL THE ISSUES THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

JUST LIKE RACIAL JUSTICE AND GENDER JUSTICE AND THE THINGS I MENTIONED, CLIMATE CHANGE IS A SYMPTOM OF A SYSTEM THAT ISN'T NECESSARILY WORKING.

>> I WONDER IF YOU COULD EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT HEAR, BUT THE CLIMATE LITERALLY AFFECTS EVERYBODY.

HOW IS IT UNIQUELY DETRIMENTAL WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INTERSECTIONAL ISSUES AS YOU JUST DID ABOUT RACIAL JUSTICE, GENDER JUSTICE, ET CETERA?

EXPLAIN HOW CLIMATE UNIQUELY IMPACTS VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES.

>> YEAH.

I LIKE THE USE OF THE WORLD VULNERABLE.

CLIMATE CHANGE MAKES US ALL VULNERABLE.

THERE ARE COMMUNITIES VULNERABLE ALREADY DUE TO WHETHER IT'S OVER POLICING, LACK OF FOOD IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

CLIMATE CHANGE ISN'T JUST ABOUT THIS BIG PICTURE ISSUE, LIKE I TALKED ABOUT CARBON.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THAT.

IT'S ALSO ABOUT, DOES YOUR NEIGHBOR HAVE AIR CONDITIONER IN A CITY GETTING HOTTER EVERY YEAR?

DOES YOUR NEIGHBOR HAVE ACCESS TO TRANSPORTATION IN A CITY THAT IS GETTING MORE SNOW EVERY YEAR?

IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH WHAT PEOPLE CAN ACCESS, AND CLIMATE CHANGE MAYBE MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT TO ACCESS THAT OR CLIMATE CHANGE CREATING MORE NEEDS FOR THEM THAN THEY ALREADY ARE STRUGGLING WITH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

A LOT OF THE REASON I GOT INVOLVED WITH CLIMATE JUSTICE IN PARTICULAR WAS LEARNING ABOUT IN NEW YORK CITY HOW LOW-INCOME HOUSING AND HOUSING THAT'S PREDOMINANTLY LIVED IN BY PEOPLE OF COLOR IS OFTEN BUILT IN AREAS THAT ARE FLOOD ZONES AND THE CITY KNOWS ARE FLOOD ZONES AND ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO FLOODING.

ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, THERE'S VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES ON THE FRONT LINES OF AN ISSUE WE KNOW IS GOING TO GET WORSE.

IT'S KIND OF LOOKING AT WHAT SYSTEMS AND POLICIES AND ALL OF THESE THINGS CONSIDER SACRIFICE ZONES, AND IT TENDS TO BE VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES THAT LIVE IN THOSE.

>> YOU TOUCHED ON THAT WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT FLOOD ZONES IN WHICH COMMUNITIES.

I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT YOU IDENTIFY AS BLACK, LATIN X, QUEER AND OBVIOUSLY A YOUNG PERSON.

I WANT YOU TO TAKE US BACK TO YOUR EXPERIENCE.

YOUR MOST TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, THAT WAS THROUGH SUPERSTORM SANDY WHEN THAT HIT NEW YORK CITY.

CAN YOU TAKE US BACK TO WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE WAS WHEN YOU WERE 12?

>> YEAH.

I JUST REMEMBER A LOT OF FEAR, A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY, NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT.

JUST GOING HOME AND WATCHING THE NEWS AND SEEING PEOPLE WHO WERE BEING IMPACTED EVEN MORE THAN I WAS IN THE MOMENT.

I DIDN'T GET INVOLVED IN CLIMATE WORK UNTIL I WAS 14.

I GOT THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REFLECT ON THAT EXPERIENCE AND MEET YOUNG PEOPLE WHO JUST LIKE ME HAD TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES BEHIND, DIDN'T HAVE A HOME TO LIVE IN ANYMORE.

I THINK A LOT OF HURRICANE SANDY WAS REALLY EYE OPENING TO ME IN TERMS OF REFLECTING ON IT AND LOOKING AT THE RELATIONSHIPS I WAS BUILDING AND UNDERSTANDING THAT PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE ME WERE IMPACTED GREATLY, UNIMAGINABLY.

THE SAME PEOPLE I WAS WALKING TO THE SUBWAY WITH AFTER SCHOOL OR EATING FREE PIZZA WITH IN AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAMS THEIR WHOLE LIVES WERE UPROOTED.

>> DID YOU FEEL THIS WAS UBIQUITOUS FEELINGS ACROSS OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS?

LET'S FOCUS ON NEW YORK CITY.

AS YOU POINTED OUT, THIS DIDN'T IMPACT ALL OF NEW YORK IN THE SAME WAY.

THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO JUST HAD THE LUXURY OF PICKING UP AND MOVING SOMEPLACE ELSE.

OTHER PEOPLE HAD TO RIDE OUT THE STORM.

AS YOU GOT INVOLVED, PARTICULARLY YOUTH-BASED CLIMATE ACTION, DID YOU FEEL AS THOUGH EVERYONE WAS ON THE SAME PAGE?

>> WHEN I FIRST GOT INVOLVED, THE FIRST CAMPAIGN THAT I WORKED ON WHEN I WAS 14 WAS FOCUSED ON CLIMATE EDUCATION ACTUALLY AND TRYING TO MANDATE CLIMATE EDUCATION IN NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

ME AND MY PEERS IN THIS PARTICULAR AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAM LEARNING ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, LEARNING ABOUT HOW TO RUN A CAMPAIGN, HOW TO MEET PEOPLE, WE ALL KIND OF COLLECTIVELY WERE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE UNLESS YOUNG PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THE ISSUE IS.

I FEEL LIKE WHEN I FIRST STARTED THE WORK, I FELT A GAP BETWEEN YOUNG PEOPLE KNOWING HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACTS THEM OTHER THAN KIND OF THE SAME IMAGES THAT WE ARE FED CONSTANTLY, TREES GETTING CUT DOWN AND POLAR BEARS NOT BEING ABLE TO MOVE ACROSS THE ICE.

WE HAVE THESE GENERAL IMAGES OF CLIMATE CHANGE THAT YOUNG PEOPLE AT THAT TIME I FEEL LIKE GOT TO SEE A LOT.

I MAKE IT A MISSION TO TEAM ABOUT HOW IT IMPACTS HUMANS AT THE END OF THE DAY.

I THINK THAT THAT NARRATIVE HAS GOTTEN MORE UNDERSTOOD.

WHEN I FIRST STARTED, IT DIDN'T FEEL AS UNDERSTOOD BY YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> LET'S PUT YOUNG PEOPLE ASIDE AND TALK ABOUT US OLDER GENERATIONS.

WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND MORE IMPORTANTLY UNDERSTANDING THE URGENCY?

BECAUSE WHILE THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF PASSION ON THE PART OF YOUR PEERS, YOUR CONTEMPORARIES, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF GOVERNMENTS, WHO ARE ACTUALLY MAKING THE DECISIONS, MIGHT NOT SEEM TO HAVE THAT SAME LEVEL OF URGENCY, CRITICAL URGENCY THAT A LOT -- WE SEE A LOT OF YOUTH EXPRESS.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF DECISION MAKERS MAYBE DON'T SEE THE -- THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS IN THE SAME WAY YOUNG PEOPLE DO.

I THINK GEN Z, PEOPLE MY AGE -- I'M 23 AND YOUNGER AND OLDER HAVE KIND OF AN INHERENT EMPATHY AND CONSIDERATION FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVED EXPERIENCE AND SITUATIONS THAT MAYBE OLDER GENERATIONS DON'T HAVE IN THE SAME WAY BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T BORN INTO THE SAME WORLD THAT WE HAVE BEEN BORN INTO.

I THINK THAT THERE'S DEFINITELY A LACK OF ACKNOWLEDGEMENT ABOUT THE JUSTICE PART OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND ABOUT THE IMPACTS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE HAS ON HUMAN BEINGS.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE IN A TOO DISTANCE, ABSTRACT WAY.

POLITICIANS, PRESIDENTS HAVE KNOWN GOING BACK TO THE 1950s AND 1960s, HAVE BEEN BRIEFED ON CLIMATE SCIENCE AND THE FACT THAT A FOSSIL FUEL INFRASTRUCTURE WAS GOING TO LEAD TO MORE CLIMATE CHANGE AND DECIDED TO PRIORITIZE PROFIT.

A LOT OF POLITICIANS ARE WORKING AT A DIFFERENT BASELINE THAN YOUNG PEOPLE ARE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE AVERAGE LAWMAKER IN THE UNITED STATES TENDS TO BE ABOVE 50 YEARS OLD.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT LIVED EXPERIENCE THAN SOMEONE WHO IS 23.

SOMEBODY BORN IN THE '50s OR '60s IS GOING TO HAVE A DIFFERENT LOOK THAN SOMEONE BORN IN 1999.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, SOMEONE BORN WHEN THE EARTH WAS CAPABLE OF SUSTAINING THEIR WAY OF LIVING IS GOING TO HAVE A HARDER TIME UNDERSTANDING AN ENTIRE GENERATION BORN IN A WORLD THAT WASN'T REALLY CAPABLE OF SUSTAINING THEIR FUTURE AND THEIR LIVELIHOOD.

>> WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT.

I WANT TO ASK, WE ARE IN A MIDTERM ELECTION YEAR, PRIMARIES ARE COMING UP, ET CETERA.

HOW DO YOU -- AS A CLIMATE ACTIVIST AND A YOUNG PERSON, HOW DO YOU MOTIVATE OTHER PEOPLE TO INCREASE THE PRESSURE ON THOSE LAWMAKERS TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE TAKING THIS SERIOUSLY AND MAKING SOME OF THE CORRECT DECISIONS TO MAKE THE PLANET MORE SUSTAINABLE AND LESS CHAOTIC WEATHER-WISE?

>> YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK IT COMES DOWN TO LETTING YOUR LOCAL POLITICIANS -- REMINDING THEM THAT THEY ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO YOU, REMINDING THEM THAT YOU ARE THEIR CONSTITUENT, WHETHER YOU CAN VOTE FOR THEM OR NOT.

REMINDING THEM THEIR JOB IS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO YOU AS A VOTER AND A CITIZEN.

I THINK THAT'S A HUGE PART OF IT.

ALSO, SOMETIMES WORKING IN LEGISLATIVE POLITICS OR TRYING TO ENGAGE IN THE LEGISLATIVE SYSTEM CAN BE WEARY AND DISHEARTENING.

ALSO REMEMBERING THAT THERE ARE SYSTEMS OUTSIDE OF THAT.

MUTUAL AID, CHECKING ON YOUR NEIGHBOR, LOOKING AT YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND SEEING WHERE PEOPLE NEED THINGS IS REALLY EMPOWERING IN A SYSTEM THAT TENDS TO BE DISEMPOWERING.

I WOULD SAY, I VOTE EVERY YEAR, I VOTE IN MIDTERM ELECTIONS, PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, LOCAL ELECTIONS, ALL OF THEM.

THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE FOUGHT HARD TO MAKE SURE I COULD EVEN DO THAT.

IF I ARE TO FILL OUT PAPERWORK AND SHOW UP, I'M GOING TO.

ALSO, AFTER YOU DO THAT, MAYBE SHOW UP TO YOUR LOCAL FOOD PANTRY, MAYBE CHECK IN ON THE ELDERLY PERSON THAT LIVES IN YOUR BUILDING.

JUST PAY ATTENTION TO PEOPLE THAT YOU TEND TO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO I THINK IS ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO NAVIGATE THE WORLD THAT WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW AS WELL AS DOING WHAT YOU CAN IN A SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T LET YOU DO MUCH.

>> VIC, WE WILL LEAVE IT THERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND FOR SOME VERY USEFUL WORDS OF WISDOM.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND FOR YOUR CONTINUED WORK IN CLIMATE ACTIVISM.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE