MetroFocus: February 28, 2023

>>> ALMOST 50,000 MIGRANTS HAVE ARRIVED IN NEW YORK SINCE LAST SPRING, STRETCHING CITY RESOURCES TO THEIR LIMIT AND LEAVING THOUSANDS IN EMERGENCY SHELTERS, SO WHAT HAS THIS EXPERIENCE BEEN LIKE FOR ASYLUM SEEKS AS THEY REBUILD THEIR LIVES?

TONIGHT, TO JOURNALISTS COVERING THIS EVOLVING CRISIS SHARE WHAT MIGRANTS ARE SAYING, AS "METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

THE MASSIVE INFLUX OF MERELY 50,000 ASYLUM SEEKERS IS TESTING NEW YORK'S ABILITY TO RESPOND TO A CRISIS MAYOR ADAMS SAYS HAS STRETCHED THE CITY TO ITS LIMIT.

NOW, ONE OF THE MAJOR FLASH POINTS UNFOLDED THIS MONTH WHEN POLICE CLEARED AN ENCAMPMENT OF MIGRANT MEN OUTSIDE THE WATSON HOTEL IN MANHATTAN.

THE GROUP REFUSED TO MOVE TO A MIGRANT SHELTER AT THE BROOKLYN CRUISE TERMINAL IN RED HOOK AMID REPORTS OF TOO MANY PEOPLE LIVED SQUEEZED TOGETHER.

"DOCUMENTED" RECENTLY TRAVELLED TO BROOKLYN AND OTHER SHELTERS TO SEE WHAT MIGRANTS HAD TO SAY ABOUT THE CONDITIONS AND CHALLENGES OF TRYING TO REBUILD THEIR LIVES IN NEW YORK.

JOINING US TO DISCUSS THEIR REPORTING AND THE LARGER CRISIS IN NEW YORK IS FISAYO OKARE, "DOCUMENTED'S" NEWS LITTER WRITER.

WELCOME?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I'D LIKE TO WELCOME "DOCUMENTED" ENGAGEMENT JOURNALIST ROMMEL OJEDA.

WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION.

>> FISAYO, I WONDER IF YOU COULD TAKE US DEEPER INTO THE STORY I MENTIONED, AND THAT IS ABOUT THE ASYLUM SEEKERS, THE MEN REMOVED FROM THE SIDEWALK OUTSIDE THE WATSON HOTEL.

>> YES.

THE MEN WERE REMOVED BY CITY OFFICIALS FROM OUTSIDE THE WATSON HOTEL.

THEY HAD STAYED THERE BECAUSE THE DAY BEFORE, SOME MIGRANTS HAD GONE TO THE NEW CENTER THAT LAUNCHED AT THE BROOKLYN CRUISE TERMINAL IN RED HOOK, AND WHEN THEY RETURNED, THEY COMPLAINED THAT CONDITIONS WERE MUCH WORSE THAN WHAT THEY HAD ENCOUNTERED AT THE HOTEL WHILE LIVING THERE.

AT THE WATSON HOTEL, TYPICALLY TWO MEN ARE ALLOCATED TO A ROOM AND PRIVATE BATH, BUT AT THE CENTER IN RED HOOK, IT'S JUST A GENERAL SLEEPING AREA WITH SEVERAL COTS FOR MIGRANTS TO SLEEP IN, IN THE BATHROOMS ARE OUTSIDE.

WHEN THEY HAVE TO TAKE A SHOWER, THEY HAVE TO LEAVE THE TENT TO TAKE A SHOWER.

SO WHEN SOME OF THE MIGRANTS RETURNED -- THEY WENT WITH THE BUSSES THAT THE CITY ORGANIZED OR ARRANGES FOR THEM TO GO TO THE CENTER IN, AND THEN THEY RETURNED TO THE HOTEL.

SO FROM WHAT SOME SAID, THEY WERE HESITANT TO GO TO THE CENTER IN RED HOOK.

HOWEVER, WHEN MY COLLEAGUE AND I WENT TO RED HEALTH CARE TO SPEAK TO THE MIGRANTS WHO HAD GONE THERE, AT THIS POINT MOST OF THE MIGRANTS HAD BEEN MOVED THERE OVERNIGHT BY THE CITY.

THEY SAID CONDITIONS THERE WERE NOT AS BAD.

THEY WERE GRATEFUL FOR THE RESOURCES THEY PROVIDED THEM.

IN THE WORDS OF ONE OF THEM, HE SAID THEY WERE PRIVILEGED THAT THE CITY WAS OFFERING THEM RESOURCES WHILE THEY TRIED TO BOUNCE BACK FROM THE SITUATION -- >> THAT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WERE HEARING PRIOR TO THIS WAS THAT IT WAS ALSO NOT JUST THE CONDITIONS OF THE TERMINAL IN RED HOOK, BUT ALSO JUST THE LOCATION, AND CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY GOING ALL THE WAY OUT TO RED HOOK INSTEAD OF BEING IN MANHATTAN, PEOPLE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT BEING THAT FAR AWAY FROM, GUY EASY, NEW YORK CITY'S CENTER?

>> THE MIGRANTS AND ASYLUM SEEKERS WERE CONCERNED ABOUT BEING FAR AWAY IN A REMOTE LOCATION AS THE BROOKLYN CRUISE TERMINAL IS IN BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO BE -- OR THEY ARE IN -- ACCESSING THE SUBWAY IS MORE DIFFICULT COMPARED TO WHEN THEY WERE AT THE WATSON HOTEL.

THE SUBWAYS WERE NEARBY.

AT THE CENTER IN RED HOOK, THEY HAVE TO WALK FARTHER AWAY BEFORE GETTING TO THE SUBWAY STATION THERE.

ALSO, SOME OF THEM HAVE -- I MEAN, SOME OF THEM IN NEW YORK RIGHT NOW MOST OF THEM ARE LOOKING FOR WORK SO THEY CAN SUSTAIN THEMSELVES, AND SO THE COMMUTES FROM THE SENTER TO WHERE THEY WORK IS -- WHERE THEY WORK IS ACTUALLY MORE CHALLENGING COMPARED TO WHERE THEY WERE BEFORE AT THE WATSON HOTEL.

HOWEVER, THE CITY PROVIDED FREE FERRIES FOR THEM FROM THE BROOKLYN CRUISE TERMINAL.

THERE ARE ALSO BUSSES THAT THE CITY HAS ARGUED TO BE ABLE TO TRANSPORT THEMSELVES EASILY TO AND FROM THERE WORK TO MANHATTAN.

>> SO, ROMMEL, I WANT TO ASK YOU, DO YOU KNOW IF -- HOW THIS IS AFFECTING PEOPLES' VIEW AT LEAST OF HAVING GONE THROUGH WHAT I'M SURE IS AN ARDUOUS JOURNEY JUST TO GET TO NEW YORK, WHAT THEIR OPINION IS NOW OF THE CITY BEING HERE AND, YOU KNOW, BEING REMOVED, HAVING TO LIVE ON THE STREETS, AND TRYING TO GET AROUND A CITY THAT ISN'T ALWAYS THAT EASILY NAVIGABLE?

>> YEAH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GETS LOST IN THE CONVERSATION IS THE MIGRANTS ARE SEEK A COMMUNITY, RIGHT?

SO WHEN WE HAVE THIS CONSTANT SHIFT FROM TEMPORARY SHELTER TO SHELTER THEY ARE LOSING THEMSELVES IN A COMMUNITY THEY'RE GETTING USED TO.

WE HAVE SPOKEN WITH A LOT OF FAMILIES THAT WERE AT THE SHELTER IN THE BRONX, AND WHILE THEY WERE THERE FOR THREE MONTHS THEY HAD ALREADY FOUND A JOB.

ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY WERE MOVED TO BROOKLYN AND THEY HAD TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.

SO TRYING TO ADJUST AFTER HAVING TO ADJUST AFTER THAT TRIP IN ITSELF SEEMS TO IMPACT THEM IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, RIGHT?

ONE OF THEM AS FISAYO MENTIONED WAS THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TO LOOK FOR JOBS, AND IF THEY HAD FOUND A -- MOST LIKELY THEY HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.

THEN YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH ASPECT.

HAVING THE CONSTANT STRUGGLE TO FIND NEW RESOURCES, TO FIND NEW PEOPLE TO TALK TO, TO FIND HELP IN THE NEW SHELTER IMPACTS THEM.

AND WE HAVE SEEN A LOT -- NOT A LOT, BUT A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE TO THE HOSPITALS AND HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH ANXIETY, WITH DEPRESSION, AND HAVING TO RETURN AND SEEK PSYCHOLOGISTS WHO CAN HOPEFULLY UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE AND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM AND HELP THEM WORK TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, FINDING A SOLUTION TO THE STRUGGLES THAT THEY'RE FACING AND WILL CONTINUE TO FACE IN THE UPCOMING MONTHS.

>> HAVE YOU FOUND IF THERE ARE ANY ORGANIZATIONS OF SOME SORT IN THE CITY THAT HAVE BEEN STEPPING UP AND AT LEAST TRYING TO HELP SOME OF THESE ASYLUM SEEKERS AND MIGRANTS TRY TO MAKE THIS ADJUSTMENT?

>> THEY'RE HAVE BEEN SO MANY ORGANIZATIONS FROM THE GET GO.

THEY HAVE BEEN HELPING MIGRANTS AND SORT OF IMPLEMENTING THIS NEW MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELLING SESSIONS WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO, SHARE THEIR STRUGGLES, BUT THEY CAN ALSO FIND PEOPLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE SHELTERS TENDS TO LACK IS A PERSON THAT SPEAKS SPANISH.

EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE THIS TRANSLATION SERVICE, IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HAVING SOMEONE IN FRONT OF YOU YOU CAN TALK TO AND EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO THEY HAVE BEEN SORT OF HELPING THEM OUT AND CONNECTING -- YOU KNOW, FILLING THE GAP BETWEEN THE CITY RESOURCES THAT EXIST BUT THAT ASYLUM SEEKERS MAY NOT KNOW OR BE AWARE OF BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF SPANISH SERVICES IN THE -- THAT THEY'RE IN.

>> FISAYO, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS I'M WONDERING IS HOW THE SI OR CITY LEADERSHIP, SPECIFICALLY MAYOR ADAMS, HAS EVOLVED ON THIS ISSUE, BECAUSE WHILE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL HE WAS VERY MUCH A DEFENDER OF IMMIGRANT RIGHTS, BUT THAT SEEMS TO HAVE EVOLVED, I GUESS, IS THE WORD I CAN THINK OF.

>> YES, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE ARRIVAL OF MORE ASYLUM SEEKERS AND MIGRANTS DURING THE SUMMER, THE MAYOR'S POSITION ABOUT IT HAS BEEN CHANGE.

HAS BEEN TRYING TO LEAD HIS ADMINISTRATION TO PROVIDE AS MUCH RESOURCES AS HE CAN, BUT ALSO HE HAS BEEN -- HE HAS SAID OVER AGAIN THAT THE CITY'S OVERWHELMED, AND COUPLED WITH THE FACT THAT OTHER GOVERNORS FROM OTHER CITY BUSED IN MIGRANTS FROM SOME OF THEIR OWN STATES TO NEW YORK CITY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT'S A SANCTUARY CITY, IT'S HAS FURTHER MADE THE CITY ADMINISTRATION TO BE OVERWHELMED ABOUT IT.

SO WE HAVE HAD THE MAYOR SAY THINGS LIKE THE RIGHT TO -- HAS TO BE REVIEWED OR HAS TO BE GONE OVER BY THE ADMINISTRATION.

HE DID MENTION ONCE THAT THE -- HE WASN'T QUITE SURE IF THE LAW SHOULD APPLY TO ASYLUM SEEKERS AS WELL, BUT MOST ADVOCATES AND -- ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS AS WELL HAVE BEEN PUSHING BACK ON IT, BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT HE CAN NOT DECIDE TO CHANGE THE LAW OR CHANGE HIS VIEWS JUST BECAUSE THE ADMINISTRATION IS NOW OVERWHELMED BY THE ASYLUM SEEKERS IN THE CITY.

>> HAS THE CITY, IN YOUR OPINION, MADE ANY PROGRESS WITH PERHAPS BATTLING MISINFORMATION, SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THIS ONE LOCATION WHERE THEY'RE MOVING MIGRANTS TO?

I KNOW THE MAYOR SPENT THE NIGHT THERE TO SORT OF PROVE A POINT.

>> YES, THE CITY HAS BEEN TRYING TO BATTLE MISINFORMATION ABOUT IT.

EVEN THE COMMISSIONER OF THE MAYOR'S OFFICE OF IMMIGRANT AFFAIRS HAS BEEN IN THE MEDIA AS WELL RECENTLY TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY'RE TRYING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO PROVIDE A SPACE FOR THE MIGRANTS TO STAY.

AND ALSO THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER CITY OFFICIALS, INCLUDING CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS AND A NEW YORK STATE SENATOR AS WELL WHO HAVE GONE THERE TO TOUR THE PLACE BY THEMSELVES.

PRESS WAS ALLOWED TO GO IN.

WHEN MY COLLEAGUE AND I WENT THERE WE FOUND MIGRANTS ON THEIR WAY TO WALK, LEAVING THE CENTER ON THEIR WAY TO WORK.

BUT CITY OFFICIALS WHO HAVE BEEN THERE HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THE CONDITIONS THERE.

WHILE THEY HAVE UNDERSCORED THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT THE MOST IDEAL SITUATION, THEY ALSO SAID THAT IT'S AN ARRANGEMENT THAT WORKS FOR THE MIGRANTS, ESPECIALLY NOW IN THIS SITUATION THEY'RE IN WHILE TRYING TO SEEK ASYLUM AND GET THE RIGHT -- SO THEY CAN BEGIN WORKING AND BEGIN TO SUSTAIN THEMSELVES.

>> ROMMEL, I'M WONDERING, BECAUSE EARLIER YOU DID MENTION THE CRISIS OF MENTAL HEALTH THAT THIS IS ALSO CAUSING FOR, YOU KNOW, MIGRANT MEN.

BUT WE KNOW IT'S NOT JUST MEN WHO WERE INVOLVED.

THERE'S ALSO CHILDREN.

DO YOU KNOW IF THIS IS HAVING A SIMILAR IMPACT ON CHILDREN WHO ARE COMING TO THE CITY?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NOTICED WHEN WE WERE TALKING TO CHILDREN AND THEIR FAMILIES IS THAT THE SENSE OF BELONGING AND HAVING TO ADJUST TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND HAVING TO FIND NEW FRIENDS THAT CAN HELP THEM NAVIGATE THE SCHOOL SYSTEM ITSELF DOES TAKE A TOLL, BUT COMPARED TO THE JOURNEY THEY MADE THROUGH THE GAP, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT, THEY TEND TO COMPARE THOSE TWO, AND IN A WAY FIND A WAY TO SAY THAT, OKAY, I HAVE BEEN THROUGH SOMETHING WORSE, AND THEREFORE I CAN DEAL WITH IT.

OF COURSE THE CITY HAS ALSO ALLOCATED FUNDS TO HELPING CHILDREN AND ALSO FAMILIES IN GENERAL WITH MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A LONG PROCESS BEFORE, YOU KNOW, KIDS CAN ACTUALLY ADJUST TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND ALSO JUST LEARN THE LANGUAGE, RIGHT?

HOPEFULLY MORE FUNDS ARE ALLOCATED FOR AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAMS SO PEOPLE CAN LEARN ENGLISH FASTER.

BUT, YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S A LONG PROCESS, AND WE WILL HAVE TO KEEP REPORTING ON IT TO SEE WHAT THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF THE -- IS.

>> ROMMEL, WE ONLY HAVE -- SECONDS LEFT.

BUT WONDERING, DO MIGRANTS HAVE TIES TO THE CITY, OR ARE THEY HERE ON THEIR OWN?

>> A LOT OF FAMILIES WE HAVE SPOKEN TO, THEY'RE HERE ON THEIR OWN, WHICH COMPLICATES NAVIGATING THE CITY.

THE CITY IS WORKING WITH OTHER NONPROFITS TO GET RESOURCES, BUT MOST OF THEM ARE ALONE.

MOST OF THEM ARE ALSO FROM VENEZUELA, WHICH THEY DID NOT HAVE ANY FAMILY MEMBERS WHEN THEY GOT HERE, WHICH COMPLICATES THINGS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO START FROM ZERO AND JUST BASICALLY LEARN AS THEY GO.

>> ALL RIGHT, WELL, I WANT TO THANK BOTH OF MY GUESTS, FISAYO OKARE AND ROMMEL OJEDA, BOTH FROM "DOCUMENTED".

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPORTING AND FOR JOINING US TONIGHT ON "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>>> THE WHITE AMERICANS OR BLACK AMERICANS, WHAT EVERYBODY WANTS IS AN EQUAL CHANCE TO HAVE A PIECE OF THE ACTION.

>> HOME OWNERSHIP TO ME, IT MEANS FREEDOM.

>> IT IS THE BACKBONE OF AMERICA.

>> FOR BLACK AMERICANS, IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

>> I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW SEGREGATED THE CITY WAS.

>> IT'S ALSO TRAPPED POOR WHITE PEOPLE.

THOSE STRUGGLES ARE SHARED STRUGGLES.

>> THE LAST GENERATION STANDING IS THE ONE THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO PICK UP THE BILL.

>> WHAT YOU JUST SAW WAS A PREVIEW OF "OWNED: A TALE OF TWO AMERICAS," AN INDEPENDENT LENS DOCUMENTARY AIRING ON PBS.

THE FILM IS AN ENTERTAINING YET THROUGHOUT-PROVOKING LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF HOUSING POLICY IN AMERICA.

FROM THE SUBURBAN DEVELOPMENTS OF LEVITTTOWN WHERE BLACKS WERE EXPLICITLY PROHIBITED FROM OWNING TOWNS TO RED LINING POLICIES IN BALTIMORE AND NEW YORK, THE FILM EXPLORES THE MANY WAYS IN WHICH HOUSING POLICY HAS BEEN MANIPULATED OVER THE YEARS TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE OF COLOR.

THE FILM ALSO TAKES A CRITICAL LOOK AT THE BOOM AND BUST CYCLE OF THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY.

A CYCLE THAT HAS LEFT MANY WHITE AMERICANS ALSO TRAPPED IN DECAYING COMMUNITIES.

SO JOINING ME NOW IS TELL US ABOUT HIS FILM AND AS PART OF OUR CHASING THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON POVERTY, JUSTICE, AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA, IS THE DIRECTOR OF "OWNED: A TALE OF TWO AMERICAS," GIORGIO ANGELINI.

GIORGIO, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> FIRST OFF, I GUESS THE GENERAL QUESTION WOULD BE IS SORT OF, HOW DID A FILM LIKE THIS COME TOGETHER FOR YOU, AND DID YOU HAVE AN INTENDED AUDIENCE WHEN YOU BEGAN PUTTING THIS TOGETHER?

>> YEAH, SO I WAS IN GRADUATE SCHOOL FOR ARCHITECTURE AT RICE UNIVERSITY IN HOUSTON DURING THE WAKE OF THE HOUSING CRISIS, AND AT THAT POINT LIKE 2011, 2012, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEING IN SOMEWHAT OF A RECOVERY, AND IT STRUCK ME AS CURIOUS TERMINOLOGY.

I KEPT ASKING MYSELF, WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY RECOVERING?

WHAT ARE WE PROMOTING AS A SYSTEM, AND IS IT PRODUCING THE THINGS WE WANT IT TO?

I READ THIS ARTICLE IN BLOOMBERG ABOUT THIS ABANDONED McMANSION DEVELOPMENT SITE IN INLAND EMPIRE, CALIFORNIA, AN AREA OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IN THE DESERT YOU WOULDN'T VISIT UNLESS YOU LIVE THERE, TO BE HONEST, NOTHING AGAINST THE AREA.

IT'S JUST AN EXURB.

5,000 MILES OF CENTERLESS SPRAWL, AS THEY CALL IT.

THE WRITING CAPTIVATED ME, BUT THERE WERE NO IMAGES ATTACHED TO IT, SO I APPLIED FOR A GRANT TO PHOTOGRAPH THIS DEVELOPMENT SITE, AND WHEN I GOT THERE, I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY A CONDITION I WASN'T PREPARED TO REALLY SEE, WHICH WAS THIS COMMODITY LIMBO, WHERE YOU HAD THESE HALF BUILT McMANSIONS THAT HAD BEEN ABANDONED LIKE A GHOST TOWN SITTING NEXT TO ABANDONED ORANGE GROVES, SO THERE WAS THIS REALLY PALPABLE SENSE OF ALIENATION.

YOU FELT AN INHUMAN QUALITY.

AT SOME POINT SOME QUANT THOUGHT, WE COULD PRODUCE THIS MUCH MONEY PER SQUARE FEET, AND THE CITY CARPETED THE LANDSCAPE WITH HOMES, AND THAT'S WHEN I FELT LIKE, THERE'S A BIGGER STORY HERE THAN TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS OF THESE SPACES.

>> OF COURSE, OF COURSE.

>> NOW, THE FILM IS TITLED "OWNED: A TALE OF TWO AMERICAS," AND WHILE WE'RE CURRENTLY IN THIS SPACE OF, PERHAPS, REASSESSING SOME OF THE HISTORICAL DECISIONS THAT WERE MADE, WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THIS WAY AMERICA, ACTUALLY, CONSCIOUSLY AND INTENTIONALLY AN MANIPULATED NOT ONLY HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS AND WHERE PEOPLE COULD LIVE, BUT THE WAY THAT THE REAL ESTATE MARKET WOULD WORK AND HOW THAT SHAPED THE AMERICA THAT WE'RE IN TODAY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YEAH.

I MEAN, MAKING A DOCUMENTARY FILM IS AS MUCH AN EDUCATION FOR THE FILMMAKER AS IT IS FOR THE INTENDED AUDIENCE, AND FOR ME THAT WAS NO DIFFERENT.

I STARTED THE PROJECT AS A NAVAL GAZY POETIC EXPLORATION OF THE CONCEPT OF WHAT IT MEANT TO KMODFY SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT AS IT HAPPENS, ESPECIALLY WITH UNDERFUNDED DOCUMENTARIES THAT TAKE A LONG TIME, HISTORY TAKES PLACE AROUND AND YOU HAVE TO RESPOND TO IT.

MICHAEL BROWN'S MURDER IN FERGUSON AND FREDDY GRAY UPRISING IN BALTIMORE MADE ME AWARE I COULDN'T TALK ABOUT A CRITIQUE OF SUBURBIA WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, BECAUSE ONE CAME AT THE EXPENSE OF THE OTHER.

WE BUILT THE SUBURBS EXPLICITLY AT THE EXPENSE OF AMERICA -- AND THE DECISIONS NOT TO SPECIFICALLY AMILE RATE OR FIX THE PROBLEM WES SET INTO MOTION A DECADE AGO.

>> THE FILM GIVES YOU A DEEP SENSE OF NOTHING IN WHAT YOU SEE AROUND YOU IS AN ACCIDENT.

BUT I'M WONDERING, IN YOUR UNRAVELING, WHAT WERE SOME OF THE, I GUESS, BIGGEST THINGS THAT STOOD OUT TO YOU IN THE DECISIONS THAT WERE MADE?

>> HMM.

WELL, I MEAN, I THINK PEOPLE ARE SURPRISED TO KNOW JUST HOW EXPLICITLY THE SEGREGATION WAS IN THE SYSTEM, RIGHT?

PEOPLE -- YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THERE'S A HUGE DEMAND FOR HOUSING COMING OUT OF WORLD WAR II, AND THE GOVERNMENT CREATES A SERIES OF AMBITIOUS PROPOSALS TO INVIGORATE BOTH THE ECONOMY -- WHICH AT THAT POINT PEOPLE FORGET -- WE THOUGHT WE WERE GOING BACK INTO A GREAT DEPRESSION.

THEY HAD TO PUMP UP THE ECONOMY, AND THEY DID THAT IN HOUSING.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A BARGAIN WITH THE CITIZEN THAT WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU ACCESS TO BASICALLY THREE LOANS AND YOU'RE GOING TO WORK A 30-YEAR JOB MATCHED WITH A 30-YEAR MORTGAGE.

TO SOME EXTENT IT REALLY WORKED BUT ONLY FOR A SPECIFIC GROUP OF PEOPLE.

IN LEVITTOWN IN THE LEAST TO OWN CONTRACTS THEY SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED BLACKS FROM LIVING THERE.

WE COMPARED IT TO SOMEWHERE -- HE WAS BUILDING A SIMILAR SIZE, SIMILAR HOMES.

BUT HE WANT TO HAVE HAD AN INTEGRATED HOME AND THE FHA, FEDERAL HOUSING ADMINISTRATION TOLD HIM BASICALLY, LIKE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO UNDERWRITE YOUR LOANS, ENSURE THOSE LOANS IF YOU CAN'T COMMIT TO HAVING A DESEGREGATED NEIGHBORHOOD, AND MUCH TO HIS CREDIT AND UNFORTUNATELY MUCH TO THE LACK OF SUCCESS OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, HE SAID, NO, IT'S MUCH MORE IMPORTANT FOR ME TO HAVE AN INTEGRATED NEIGHBORHOOD.

HE HAD TO HAVE FINANCING PRIVATELY AND AS A RESULT THE DEVELOPMENT COULD ONLY GROW SO BIG.

JUST SHOWS YOU HOW PERNICIOUS THE MENTALITY WAS THAT BLACK FAMILIES MOVING INTO WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS WOULD BRING DOWN PROPERTY VALUES, WHICH OF COURSE WAS NOT TRUE.

>> I WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU SAID WHAT YOU INTENDED TO SAY, WHICH WAS AT THE TIME OF THIS DEVELOPMENT IN CALIFORNIA, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO ENSURE THESE LOANS UNLESS IT'S A SEGREGATED DEVELOPMENT.

>> SORRY.

YEAH.

>> OKAY, JUST WANTED THAT MAKE THAT CLEAR.

OKAY, SO WITH ALL OF THAT THAT YOU SORT OF DISCOVER -- AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EVEN UNDERSTOOD OF BUILDING THIS ECONOMY AND USING REAL ESTATE TO DO IT.

HOW DOES THAT JUST LEAN RIGHT INTO WHAT BECAME WHAT I'M SURE HISTORY WILL LOOK BACK AT AT THIS INFAMOUS HOUSING CRISIS THAT COLLAPSE IN THE 2008?

>> I THINK IN GENERAL THE FILM IS REALLY A KIND OF STUDY ON OUR BELIEF SYSTEMS AND WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE THE IMPORTANCE AND ROLE THAT HOME OWNERSHIP PLAYS IN SOCIETY.

INCREASINGLY SINCE THE ADVENT OF THE 30-YEAR MORTGAGE AND SHOWS LIKE "FLIP OR FLOP", WE CONSIDER A HOME A WEALTH ACCUMULATOR.

IT IS THE PLACE YOU BUILD YOUR WEALTH AS A FAMILY, AND AS SUCH IT ENDS UP TEASING OUT THE WORSE ASPECTS IN US.

ON THE FINANCIAL SIDE IT EXPOSES PEOPLE TO A PERNICIOUS EXPLOITATIVE LENDING PRACTICE, WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO PREY ON YOU EITHER THROUGH NO INCOME, NO ASSET LOANS, WHICH IS WHAT CREATED THE 2008 HOUSING CRISIS IN MANY WAYS, OR OTHER KIND OF SCHEMES.

AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, IF YOU THINK THAT THE HOME IS THERE TO INCREASE VALUE AND ITS ONLY PURPOSE IS TO MAKE YOU WEALTHY, AND YOU ARE ALSO A GENERALLY RACIST PERSON AND YOU BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR MOVING INTO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS GOING TO BRING YOUR PROPERTY VALUE DOWN THEN YOU'RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO MAINTAIN -- PREVENT BLACK AND BROWN MOVING IN THERE BECAUSE YOU SEE IT AS A THREAT TO YOUR WEALTH ACCUMULATION.

>> THERE'S SO MUCH THIS FILM ADDRESSES AND DOES QUITE WELL, AND SOMETIMES IN A SURPRISINGLY ENTERTAINING WAY, BUT I DO WANT TO ASK, HOW THEN DOES -- THE FILM SORT OF TOUCHES ON THE RE-INTEREST IN URBAN AREAS FROM SUBURBAN AREAS.

WE'VE SEEN A LARGE MOVE OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LIVE IN A WALKABLE, URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THEN THAT SORT OF RE-CREATES THE WHOLE PROCESS ALL OVER AGAIN, CORRECT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YEAH, WE FOLLOWED A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER IN LEVITTOWN NAMED JIMMY WHO GREW UP -- AFTER WORLD WAR II ENDED HE WAS GROWING UP IN INNER CITY NEW YORK, BED STUY, WHICH WAS QUITE INTEGRATED THEN.

BECAUSE OF THE G.I.

BILL AND FHA POLICIES HIS FAMILY WAS ABLE TO MOVE OUT TO LEVITTOWN.

IN A SAD IRONY HE COMES BACK TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS, 20 YEARS LATER DIVESTED FROM AND FALLING AND REPAIR, HE COMES BACK AS A POLICE OFFICER TO POLICE THIS COMMUNITY THAT USED TO BE HIS OWN.

SO IN THE FILM HE GOES BACK TO THE BLOCK WHERE HE USED TO LIVE, THE COMPLEX HE USED TO LIVE THAT HAS NOW BEEN DEMOLISHED AND IS JUST A VACANT LOT, AND THERE'S A TOUCHING MOMENT WHERE HE KIND OF MEDITATE ON THE IDEA OF, LIKE, WHERE THOSE FAMILIES WENT, RIGHT?

AND OF COURSE AROUND HIM IS JUST THE ADVENT OF ALL THIS RAPID DEVELOPMENT AND GENTRIFICATION, AND HE'S KIND OF PRETENDING WITH THIS COGNITIVE DISSONANCE THAT IN SOME WAYS GENTRIFICATION IS GOOD BECAUSE IT'S FIXING THE STREETS AND INFRASTRUCTURES BUT IT'S INHERENTLY EXCLUSIVE AND DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR PAIN IT'S CAUSED THE RESIDENTS THAT HAD THE MOVE OUT.

IN THAT SENSE I THINK IT CAPTURES A FEELING THAT A LOT OF US IN AMERICA ARE DEALING WITH, A KIND OF SENSE OF HELPLESSNESS, A RECOGNITION THAT MAYBE YOU WEREN'T THE CAUSE OF ALL THESE PROBLEMS, BUT YOU'RE ALSO THE BENEFICIARY IN SOME WAY, AND WHAT YOU DO WITH THAT GUILT IS THE CENTRAL DILEMMA THAT AMERICA IS FACING RIGHT NOW.

>> OF COURSE.

THE FILM IS "OWNED: A TALE OF TWO AMERICAS,".

WE WERE JOINED BY GIORGIO ANGELINI.

THIS WAS PART OF OF COURSE OUR CHASING THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON POVERTY, JUSTICE, AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.

GIORGIO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND ALSO, THANK YOU FOR THE FILM.

IT WAS AN ENTERTAINING AND YET EYE-OPENING WATCH.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,