WILLIAM BRANGHAM: With the war in Iran# stretching on for almost a month and## President Trump struggling to# contain the economic fallout,## now is a good time for the# analysis of Brooks and Capehart.

That's "The Atlantic"'s David Brooks# and Jonathan Capehart of MS NOW.

Good evening, gentlemen.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Hi, William.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jonathan, as# you ta.. the president has given all sorts of# conflicting ideas as to why we got## into this war, how the war is currently going# and what might happen to get out of this war.

The thing that's not unclear at all is the# toll, the lives lost, the infrastructure damage,## the economic toll, with the Pentagon now saying# that they might need an extra $200 billion to## continue fighting this.

What does this say about# the ongoing -- about this ongoing conflict?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Where to begin, William.

I'm still trying to understand what the# president's true objectives are.

Is it## regime change?

And, if so, who comes next?# What comes next?

He wants them to surrender,## but in the same breath says there's no# one to talk to.

We've killed everybody.

Just before we came on air, there's a long# TRUTH Social post from the president saying,## basically, we're almost there and here# are all the things we've been able to do,## and then said to the allies, if# you guys want to open the strait,## that's on you.

And he said, we don't# use the strait, we don't need it.

OK, so then what does that mean for# oil production?

What does that mean for## Americans here at home, who have seen their# -- have seen gas prices rise?

By tomorrow,## it could be that gas has increased a# full dollar since the start of the war.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: A huge jump.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: A huge jump.. I mean, I would just love it if the# president would do an Oval Office## address and talk to the American people# formally about why he did what he did,## what he sees his objectives are, or his# accomplishments, and then tell us what's next.

That would be infinitely more helpful than# what we've seen over the last four weeks.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Let's say# he did that.

Would it matter?

DAVID BROOKS: I think so.

I was pleased that he## said in this TRUTH Social post that# he was thinking of winding it down.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right, winding it down.

DAVID BROOKS: And he said we've achiev.. where they either decide we're going to clear the## Straits of Hormuz or we're just going to# try and negotiate a settlement right now.

And clearing the Straits of Hormuz is a# multiweek, maybe multimonth operation.

And## that's where the $200 billion and the# Marines were going in, would come in.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: An.. And that is just an ugly proposition.

If we# could clear the Straits of Hormuz in a week,## I'd say go for it.

But that doesn't# seem to be on offer.

So we're looking## at a lot of economic turmoil, a lot of# death, probably boots on the ground.

And so that's an unattractive# option.

Right now, he can say,## the region's language is mowing the grass,# that Iran tries to build up terror capability,## terror capability, and every once in a while# you have to mow the grass, which -- to reduce## their terror capability.

And this would# be the mother of all mowing the grasses.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: But he could.. the key thing is we have reduced their ability to# be a regional power.

And we may have eliminated## their ability to be a regional power.

And# that would be a total win for the region.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And that is a legitimate# argument, that they have genuinely done that.

DAVID BROOKS: They have.

They've decapitated# the regime.

They've gotten rid of a lot of the## Hamas and Hezbollah.

They've taken out a lot# of the weapons capabilities.

Most importantly,## they've taken out the factories where they make## the weapons.

So that takes a long# time to build all that stuff back.

And so that would be somewhat of a win.

It would# not be a total win.

It would be a very ugly win,## because we'd basically be telling Iran, you# intimidated us.

You close the straits and## we can't -- you sort of beat us on that# front.

And so it would not be good.

But## it might be -- of all the bad options in# front of us, that might be a decent one.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Yes.

But in the interim, Jo.. although the president says their military# has been utterly destroyed, they are showing,## in that zero percent that# they allegedly have left,## remarkable tenacity to punish other Gulf states,# to destroy critical oil and gas infrastructure.

I mean, analysts have been arguing that what's# been done in Qatar recently has be -- could be## years undoing.

The Iranians don't seem# to be ready to give up this fight yet.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right.

And that's why there seems to be#this dissonance and disconnect, certainly for me here in Washington,# but I'm sure for the American people## who are just loosely watching.

The# president says one thing, such as,## the straits are open, everything is great,# and then the split screen tankers on fire.

The words that are coming out of the president's# mouth and out of his administration don't seem## to match the facts on the ground, which is# why I think it would be really important for## the president to come to the American# people and explain what's happened.

The problem that he has, and the problem,# admittedly, I would have watching such an## Oval Office address is, I would not know# how much of what he says I can trust.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

Do you think that the rising energy prices,# David, are going to fo.. DAVID BROOKS: Not necessarily.

I mean, it's not# great to have the gas above up a buck, as you say.

But if you look at his base, we had the numbers# on earlier in the show, he's not losing his base.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: And he.. change the regime, it would be worth# a couple weeks of economic hardship.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: Bu.. the economic hardship is the economic hardship.

So, to me, it's not a killer, but it's certainly# pressure on him.

And he's the guy who follows## the stock market.

Affordability is a number one# issue.

It doesn't seem to bug him, particularly.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: Which is interesting to me.

He's# not, like, t.. WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: So.. I don't -- any war is not worth doing if it's# being led by Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: So.. But if they could reduce the power# of Iran for the next generation,## that would not be good for the people of Iran,# because they'll still be stuck with this regime,## but it would be good for the region.# And you're seeing the Gulf states,## you're seeing the Saudis basically fighting# alongside Israel and saying, what Iran did in## bombing all these states was a true atrocity# that's altering the landscape of that region.

And that too is -- the more we#can get a grand coalition against Iran, not bad.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: However long that lasts.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

I mean, what do you make of this ar.. Israel's making, and certainly some foreign# policy hawks, that, as David is describing,## that it might be worth it, even if you put aside# your feelings about Trump and Hegseth and the way## he's operated this and the way he's communicated# about this, that what they have done to a## regime that so many people do argue is an awful# totalitarian regime, that it could be worth it?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Might be worth it.# Could be worth it.

If it were possible,## why didn't previous presidents of both parties# do it?

Why did they always seem to stop?

There is always something that stopped them.

And,# look, I would be 100 percent behind you, David,## if I knew what day two was and if I trusted# the people who were doing all the planning.## I can't trust the folks, simply because their# words don't match what's happening on the ground.

But, also, the way the president launched# into this, great, you can start a war,## but what's the game plan?

What is your# end goal?

How achievable is it?

And then,## once you're done or while you're doing it, what# does the rest of the neighborhood look like?

The idea that the president# was told by military leaders,## they're going to probably close the# Strait of Hormuz, but you've got to## be prepared for that, he got that intel# and decided, I don't care about that.

I mean, so, Mr.

President, what is your day after# or two days after or a week after?

Let's say that## this very rosy idea of what the region could look# like, let's say that is possible.

Mr.

President,## how are you going to make the Brooks# vision real and tell us the truth?

And the fact that we don't know what that answer# is should be alarming to more than just me.

DAVID BROOKS: I would just say one# thing about it, that what Trump has## done has made the previous presidents look# bad because they should have done something.

Iran has always been the central threat# and George W. Bush went after Iraq.

What## the heck?

Right.

Barack Obama abandoned the# red line in Syria, gave sort of a green light## there in Syria.

Joe Biden didn't do much.# Trump didn't do much in the first term.

And so the problem built.

Now,# is the problem solved?

No,## it's not solved.

And I think -- I don't# know if -- this is where U.S.

and Israeli## interests really diverge.

We have a much# stronger interest in trying to wind down.

The Israelis do not have that#interest.

And so that will be a tension.

But if you can get a weakened# regime, I don't know,## it looks not as pessimistic# as I was last week about it.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Oh, call that progress.

All right, let's take it to Friday night.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: David Brooks... JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes, you didn't.. (LAUGHTER) WILLIAM BRANGHAM.. JONATHAN CAPEHART: But# that's OK.

We're out of time.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We will come back#next week.

We will talk about it then.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Great.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM.. JONATHAN CAPEHART: You too, William.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Thanks...