>>> TONIGHT ON THE FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

A DEADLY UNPROVOKED SHOOTING ON THE SUBWAY RATTLES NEW YORK.

WHAT MORE COULD BE DONE TO MAKE THE CITY SAFER.

>>> AND TWO YEARS AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER, WHERE DOES THE FIGHT FOR JUSTICE GO FROM HERE?

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING.

AND WELCOME TO THE "METROFOCUS" FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

IN THIS WEEK'S LOOK AHEAD AT THE MAJOR HEADLINES, AN UNPROVOKED MIDDAY SHOOTING ON THE SUBWAY LEAVES A 48-YEAR-OLD MAN DEAD.

POLICE ARE SEARCING FOR THE GUNMAN AND THE VICTIM'S FAMILY ARE PLEADING WITH THE MAYOR THE MAKE NEW YORK CITY SAFER.

THE QUESTION NOW, WHERE DOES THE FIGHT FOR RACIAL JUSTICE GO FROM HERE?

AND, A WEEK AFTER THE BUFFALO SUPERMARKET SHOOTER TARGETED A BLACK COMMUNITY IN THIS YEAR'S DEADLIEST MASS SHOOTING, WHAT MORE CAN BE DONE TO ROOT OUT WHITE SUPREMACY IN NETWORK?

FOR MUCH MORE ON THESE STORIES, LET'S INTRODUCE TONIGHT'S PANEL OF EXPERTS.

JOINING US FOR THE FIRST TIME IS ROBERT SAMUELS.

ROBERT IS THE COAUTHOR OF THE NEW BOOK "HIS NAME IS GEORGE'S FLOYD, ONE MAN'S LIFE AND STRUGGLE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE", AND ROBERT'S ALSO A NATIONAL POLITICAL ENTERPRISE REPORTER FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST."

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'D ALSO LIKE TO WELCOME FOR THE FIRST TIME JAMEEL CRUISE.

AN AWARD WINNING COMMUNITY LEADER FROM BUFFALO WHO ORGANIZED A VIGIL FOR THE VICTIMS OF THIS MONTH'S SHOOTING.

JAMEEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'D ALSO LIKE TO WELCOME BACK DR.

CRYSTAL FLEMING.

DR. FLEMING IS THE AUTHOR OF "RISE UP, HOW YOU CAN JOIN THE FIGHT OF WHITE SUPREMACY" AND A SUNY STONEY BROOK PROFESSOR.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> AND TO ROUND OUT OUR PANEL TONIGHT WE'RE JOINEDLY ELISSA KATZ, DEPUTY EDITOR AT THE CITY, NONPROFIT WEBSITE COVERING NEW YORK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> OKAY, SO, ELISSA, I WANT TO START WITH YOU, SIMPLY BECAUSE THE BIGGEST HEADLINE IN NEW YORK CITY IS THE MOST RECENT SUBWAY SHOOTING.

SO CAN YOU TAKE US THROUGH WHAT WE KNOW, AT LEAST, OF WHAT TOOK PLACE?

>> SURE, SO, YOU KNOW, YESTERDAY ON A VERY ORDINARY HOT SUNDAY, "Q" TRAIN WAS GOING OVER THE MANHATTAN BRIDGE FROM BROOKLYN INTO MANHATTAN, AND IN THE LAST CAR OF THE TRAIN, WITNESSES REPORTED THAT A -- SOMEBODY WAS PACING BACK AND FORTH IN THE SUBWAY CAR AND THAT WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION OR, YOU KNOW, APPARENTLY ANY WORDS EXCHANGED OR ANYTHING, SHOT AND KILLED A PASSENGER ON THE TRAIN WHO -- YOU KNOW, HE WAS JUST GOING TO BRUNCH.

SOMEBODY WHO LIVED IN PARK SLOPE, WORKED FOR GOLDMAN SACHS, WAS A NEW YORK SUCCESS STORY, SUDDENLY JUST DEAD ON THE TRAIN.

AND THE GUNMAN IS STILL AT LARGE, RIGHT.

AND I THINK IT IS -- THIS OF COURSE FOLLOWS THE RECENT MASS SHOOTING NOT THAT FAR FROM THERE ON ANOTHER SUBWAY LINE IN BROOKLYN THAT INJURED A NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND THANKFULLY DID NOT LEAVE ANYONE DEAD.

AND IN THAT CASE, THE PERPETRATOR, THE ALLEGED PERPETRATOR WAS CAPTURED BUT IT'S JUST LIKE, AT A TIME WHEN THE NEW YORK CITY SUBWAYS HAVE BEEN REALLY STRUGGLING TO REGAIN RIDERSHIP, AND PASSENGERS HAVE HAD SO MANY CONCERNS ABOUT RISING CRIME AND DISORDER.

CERTAINLY RELATIVE TO THE REDUCED NUMBER OF PASSENGERS ON NOW.

YOU KNOW, WHEN NEW YORK CITY IS STRUGGLING TO GET PEOPLE BACK INTO OFFICERS.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE ALL SPEAKING FROM HOME RIGHT NOW.

AND I'M SPEAKING FROM BROOKLYN.

I DID NOT RIDE THE "Q" TRAIN FOR REASONS THAT DID NOT HAVE TO DO WITH THE MURDER, BUT IT JUST CREATES A PRETTY TERRIFYING CLIMATE, AND YEAH, THE NYPD IS STILL LOOKING FOR THE PERPETRATOR HERE.

>> OF COURSE.

I DO WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT AT LEAST AS OF THIS TAPING, WHICH IS A FEW HOURS BEFORE OUR AIR TIME.

BUT I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH THAT AND JUST ASK, WHAT KIND OF PRESSURE IS THIS PUTTING ON THE ADAMS ADMINISTRATION?

BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, THIS IS THE SECOND INCIDENT OF SOMEBODY NOT ONLY BRINGING A GUN ON TO THE SUBWAY, BUT FIRING AND KILLING SOMEONE.

WHAT KIND OF PRESSURE IS THIS PUTTING ON MAYOR ADAMS TO DO SOMETHING?

>> ADAMS WAS ALREADY FEELING TREMENDOUS PRESSURE AND HAD A COUPLE OF RESPONSES.

JUST DAY AFTER BEING INAUGURATE IN THE JANUARY, HE CAME OUT WITH A GUN SAFETY PLAN, WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING AND HAS DEPLOYED KIND OF A RENEWED VERSION OF PATROLS -- THESE ARE OFFICERS WHO ARE TRAINED TO INTERCEPT GUNS, WHICH THEY HAVE TO DO USING, YOU KNOW, NOT CROSSING CONSTITUTIONAL LINES LIKE THEY DID WITH THE STOP AND FRISK PROGRAM.

BUT REALLY FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET GUNS OFF THE STREET.

THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING CLAIMS ABOUT HOW MANY GUNS THEY'VE REMOVED.

BUT CLEARLY THERE ARE FAR MORE OUT THERE THAN THEY CAN REMOVE.

AND THEY HAVE THE TWIN PROBLEMS AS WELL OF HAVING AN INFLUX OF GHOST GUNS, UNTRACEABLE ASSEMBLE YOUR OWN GUNS THAT PEOPLE CAN BUY ON THE INTERNET.

ON TOP OF THAT WE HAVE LOOMING OVER US THE PENDING SUPREME COURT DECISION ABOUT NEW YORK CITY'S GUN LICENSING RULES, WHICH, THERE IS A SECOND AMENDMENT CHALLENGE.

THE SUPREME COURT IS VERY LIKELY TO INVALIDATE NEW YORK'S GUN CONTROL RULES.

ADAMS SAID RECENTLY THIS IS VERY, VERY WORRISOME THAT WE MIGHT HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST AUTHORIZED TO CARRY GUNS ON THE STREETS.

OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE DOING IT NOW, BUT IT JUST REALLY -- A SUPREME COURT DECISION WOULD MAKE THAT MUCH HARDER.

SO ADAMS HAS PROPOSED HAVING METAL DETECTERS ON THE SUBWAYS THAT WOULD BE UNINTRUSIVE.

HE'S TRYING OUT ONE AT CITY HALL AS A TEST CASE.

THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW EFFECTIVE THOSE MIGHT BE, BUT HE'S TRYING TO SHOW HE'S TRYING TO INTERCEPT THE GUNS AND KEEP THE SUBWAYS SAFE.

>> I WANT TO TAKE ALL OF THIS INFORMATION WE SHALL WITH THE PRESSURE THAT'S NOT JUST BEING PUT ON MAYOR ADAMS IN NEW YORK CITY, BUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT EXECUTIVES ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO ARE -- WHERE COMMUNITIES ARE ASKING, WE'RE SEEING AN INCREASE IN VIOLENCE, SOMETHING NEED TO BE DONE TO KEEP US SAFE.

AND I WANT TO PUT THAT AGAINST THE BACKDROP OF WHAT, IF ANYTHING, HAS BEEN LEARNED FROM THE CASE OF GEORGE FLOYD.

AND SO ROBERT, I WANT TO BRING YOU INTO THE CONVERSATION AND ASK YOU, BASICALLY, WHAT HAS BEEN LEARNED?

WHAT IS IT ABOUT POLICING THAT WE COULD BE ON THE PRECIPICE OF DOING INCORRECTLY OR PERHAPS COULD DO CORRECTLY THIS TIME?

>> WELL, AFTER GEORGE FLOYD DIED.

WE SAW SOME STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS BAN CHOKE HOLDS AND NO-KNOCK WARRANTS, BUT THEN WE SAW THE LARGER EFFORTS CRUMBLE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

AND SO THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WE WERE THINKING ABOUT STRIPPING FEDERAL FUNDING FROM POLICE DEPARTMENTS THAT CARRIED THOSE TWO THINGS, THAT WE WERE THINKING ABOUT HAVING DATA BASES THAT PREVENTED OFFICERS WHO HAD BAD RECORDS OR COMPLAINTS FROM MOVING FROM ONE DEPARTMENT TO ANOTHER CITY WHERE THEY COULD DO THE SAME THING TO A POINT WHERE THINKING ABOUT HAVING POLICE OFFICERS BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE CRIMINALLY AND THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM WHERE IF THEY DO SOMETHING ON THE JOB.

NOW, THAT CONVERSATION WAS MOVING PRETTY FAST, AND THEN IT SLOWED, AND NOW IT'S NOT REALLY A CONVERSATION ANYMORE.

SO AFTER -- TWO YEAR AFTER GEORGE FLOYD DIED, I THINK THERE'S A BIG QUESTION THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY ABOUT WHAT CAN BE DONE, TO, ONE, MAKE THE COMMUNITY FEEL SAFE IN A LOT OF WAYS, HOW TO MAKE THEM FEEL SAFE LIVING THEIR LIVES, TO NOT FEAR POLICE VIOLENCE, BUT ALSO HOW TO KEEP THEIR COMMUNITY SAFE FROM RISING CRIME THAT'S HAPPENING THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

>> DR. FLEMING, AND I DON'T WANT TO PUT YOU IN THE POSITION OF A POLICING EXPERT, BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU, FROM A CULTURAL STANDPOINT, THERE IS A SENSE THAT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT CITIES THAT THERE'S A LEVEL OF UNSAFETY THAT'S GROWING, AND PEOPLE DON'T NECESSARILY FEEL COMFORTABLE, AS COMFORTABLE AS PERHAPS THEY MAY HAVE BELIEVED THEY WERE BEFORE.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT POINTS TO KEEP IN THE FOREFRONT OF OUR MINDS AS WE TRAY TO NAVIGATE THROUGH THIS PARTICULAR TRYING TIME?

>> I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND ABOUT SAFETY, POLICING, AND OUR LONG ONGOING HISTORY OF ANTI-BLACKNESS IS THAT THROUGHOUT THAT HISTORY WE HAVE SEEN FEARS ABOUT YOUR SAFETY USED TO PUSH BACK ON MEANINGFUL REFORM OF POLICE.

WE'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW, CRIME RATES USED AND POLITICIZED AND REALLY WEAPONIZED TO PUSH BACK ON RADICAL CHANGE.

AND SO I THINK, AGAIN, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE WAY IN WHICH TWO YEARS LATER, AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER, WE'RE STILL REELING FROM THE TERRIBLE DOMESTIC TERRORISM IN BUFFALO.

THESE EVENTS.

THESE -- WHETHER THEY'RE HIGH PROFILE ACTS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE, WHETHER THEY'RE ACTS OF MURDER BY THE POLICE OR VIGILANTES LIKE THE TERRORIST IN BUFFALO, THESE ARE ACTS THAT REPEAT THEMSELVES IN OUR HISTORY BECAUSE WE HAVE AN ONGOING SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH BLACK PEOPLE NOT BEING SAFE IN A COUNTRY IN WHICH ANTI-BLACK RACISM AND WHITE SUPREMACY HAS BEEN INSTITUTIONALIZED INTO OUR POLICIES AND INSTITUTIONS AND OUR CULTURE MORE BROADLY.

>> I WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO THE POINT YOU MADE, BUT I WANT TO BRING IN JAMEEL RIGHT NOW AND TALK ABOUT THE COMMUNITY REACTION IN BUFFALO.

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU'RE HEARING FROM PEOPLE, AND ARE THEY INCORPORATING SOME OF THESE MORE COMPLICATED NUANCED DISCUSSIONS INTO WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE HAPPEN GOING FORWARD?

>> I THINK HERE IN BUFFALO, THERE'S BEEN A MIXED BAG OF EMOTIONS AS IT PERTAINS TO THIS MASSACRE THAT TOOK PLACE JUST LAST WEEK.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOW THE SINGLE BIGGEST MASSACRE AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY IN ALMOST 100 YEARS, AND IT HAPPENED HERE IN OUR CITY.

AND PEOPLE ARE STILL TRYING TO PROCESS, YOU KNOW, HOW THIS HAPPENED HERE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

WE SEE THESE THINGS HAPPEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

BUT WE NEVER THINK THAT IT WILL HAPPEN HERE IN OUR OWN COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, SO A LOT OF QUESTIONS ARE BEING ASKED RIGHT NOW.

A LOT OF QUESTIONS ARE BEING ASKED TO OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

A WILL THE OF QUESTIONS ARE BEING ASKED TO DIFFERENT COMMUNITY LEADERS AND SUCH.

THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THE SINGLE BIGGEST THREAT TO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY AND SAFETY IS WHITE SUPREMACY.

BUT YET THERE'S NO PLAN -- THERE'S NEVER BEEN A PLAN TO ADDRESS THIS THREAT, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO HAVE THOSE HARD CONVERSATIONS, AND WE'RE STARTING TO HAVE THOSE NOW HERE IN BUFFALO.

YOU KNOW, WE HAD PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHO CAME UP HERE AND, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR HIM COMING UP HERE, YOU KNOW, TO STAND WITH THE FAMILIES AND EXPRESS HIS CONDOLENCES AND OFFER THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS, IT HAS TO GO BEYOND THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS AT THIS POINT.

WE REALLY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE PLAN TO ADDRESS WHITE SUPREMACY.

IF THIS IS -- AS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY STATED IN REPORT AFTER REPORT, YEAR AFTER YEAR, THAT THIS IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST THREAT TO AMERICAN SAFETY AND DEMOCRACY, THEN WHAT IS THE PLAN TO ADDRESS IT?

WHERE'S THE BUDGET?

SHOW US THE BUDGET.

YOU KNOW, WHAT TYPE OF BUDGET DO YOU HAVE IN PLACE TO ADDRESS THIS THREAT.

WHAT ABOUT STAFFING?

WHAT ABOUT HUMAN RESOURCES AS WELL?

WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE IN PLACE RIGHT NOW TO ADDRESS THESE THINGS THAT CONSISTENTLY HAPPEN TO BLACK PEOPLE?

NOT JUST PEOPLE OF COLOR.

I WANT TO BE VERY SPECIFIC AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, BECAUSE WE SAW JUST LAST YEAR WHEN, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A RISE IN ANTI-ASIAN VIOLENCE AND SUCH, AND THERE WERE BILLS THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE ALMOST IMMEDIATE LY TO COMBAT THOSE THINGS.

YET WE'VE SEEN THESE THINGS HAPPEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN THROUGHOUT OUR COUNTRY AND MANY COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AND NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE TO ADDRESS IT.

SO THOSE HARD CONVERSATIONS NEED TO BE HAD, AND I'M GRATEFUL THAT IN THE CONVERSATIONS I'M HAVING WITH FOLKS, I'M HAVING WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS AND SUCH HERE AND COMMUNITY LEADERS, THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE STARTING TO BE HAD.

>> WELL, OKAY, SO DR. FLEMING THIS FEELS LIKE A PERFECT CHANCE TO BRING YOU BACK IN, AND FOR TWO REASONS.

ONE IS, WE'VE NOW HEARD THE PRESIDENT REFERENCE WHITE SUPREMACY.

OF COURSE, AS JAMEEL JUST MENTIONED WE'VE HEARD NATIONAL SECURITY MENTION THE THREAT OF WHITE SUPREMACY OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND YET I THINK PERHAPS MOST PEOPLE AREN'T CRYSTAL CLEAR ON WHAT THAT IS.

OR THEY MIGHT HAVE AN IDEA IN THEIR MIND OF SOMETHING.

VERY EXTREME, BUT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS EM.

FROM YOUR LEARNED, EDUCATED PERSPECTIVE, CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE US A CLEAR DEFINITION OF WHITE SUPREMACY IN AMERICA?

IF THAT'S POSSIBLE.

>> YEAH.

I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE, AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE ABOUT WHAT THIS TERM WHITE SUPREMACY EVEN MEANS.

SO FIRST OF ALL, WHITE SUPREMACY IS THE IDEA THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE BETTER OR SUPERIOR TO EVERYONE ELSE, AND IT INCLUDES THE POLICIES AND PRACTICES THAT INSTITUTIONALIZE THAT MYTH OF WHITE SUPERIORITY INTO OUR POLICIES, INTO OUR LAWS, INTO OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, WHICH HAS BEEN THE NORM FOR GENERATIONS.

SO, IT IS BOTH AN IDEOLOGY, IT'S WHITE SUPREMACIST BELIEFS, BUT IT'S ALSO THE CONCRETE PRACTICES THAT TURN THOSE WEB OF NOXIOUS BELIEFS INTO POLICY.

AND I WANT TO ECHO MUCH OF WHAT WE HEARD FROM JAMEEL JUST A MOMENT AGO.

THE REALITY IS THAT OUR COUNTRY HAS NEVER HAD A SERIOUS PLAN FOR DEALING WITH WHITE SUPREMACY, EVEN IN TERMS OF EXTREMIST VIOLENCE.

AS MUCH AS THERE'S BEEN A RECOGNITION IN RECENT YEARS -- ONLY RECENT YEARS, REALLY -- THAT WHITE SUPREMACISTS, DOMESTIC TERRORISM IS THE NUMBER ONE THREAT THAT WE HAVE TO OUR COLLECTIVE SAFETY.

BUT THERE'S ALSO NEVER BEEN A PLAN FOR ADDRESSING THE WAY IN WHICH WHITE SUPREMACY HAS BEEN INTEGRATED INTO OUR MAINSTREAM.

THE MAINSTREAM OF OUR POLITICS, THE MAINSTREAM OF OUR CULTURE.

AND IT'S A BIG MISTAKE TO THINK THAT WHITE SUPREMACY IS JUST EXTREMISM OR TO TREAT IT AS SOMETHING THAT'S JUST ASSOCIATED WITH THE TERRIBLE VIOLENCE IN BUFFALO OR WITH, YOU KNOW, EXTREMIST GROUPS THAT ADMIT TO BEING WHITE SUPREMACISTS.

WE REALLY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IN MANY WAYS WHITE STREMIST RACISM HAS BEEN THE BEDROCK OF OUR POLITICS AND CULTURE FROM BEFORE THE INCEPTION OF THE UNITED STATES.

IT WAS EMBEDDED EVEN IN OUR COLONIAL SOCIETY.

AND UNFORTUNATELY THERE'S HUGE DENIAL ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM ABOUT THIS.

WE HAVE PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS, WHO INDIVIDUALLY AND TOGETHER DENIED THE COUNTRY, THE UNITED STATES, IS SYSTEMICALLY RACIST.

SO, IF WE CAN'T ADMIT THAT WE LIVE IN A RACIST SOCIETY, HOW ARE WE GOING TO ADDRESS WHITE SUPREMACY?

>> OF COURSE.

ROBERT, YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT AFTER -- WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LESSONS TO BE TAKEN FROM THE TRAGIC LOSS OF GEORGE FLOYD'S LIFE THAT THERE WERE SOME ATTEMPTS AT CHANGING POLICING AND PERHAPS SOME IDEAS THAT WERE FLOATED, BILLS, ET CETERA, BUT AS WE HEARD FROM JAMEEL, WHERE ARE THE BUDGETS?

WHERE ARE THE PLAN GOING FORWARD?

DO WE AT LEAST KNOW IF MINNEAPOLIS, WHICH, AGAIN, BEING THE CENTER FOR NOT ONLY THE LOCATION OF GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, BUT THE CENTER FOR THE MOVEMENT THAT ERUPTED AFTERWARDS, WHAT STEPS HAVE BEEN TAKEN, IF ANY, TO TRY TO ADDRESS SYSTEMATIC OPPRESSIVE POLICING WITHIN THEIR OWN POLICE FORCE?

>> WELL, WE KNOW THAT THEY BANNED NO-KNOCK WARRANTS, AND THEN SOMEONE LOST THEIR LIVE WHEN A COP KILLED SOMEONE USING A NO-KNOCK WARRANT.

AND SO THERE'S A BIG QUESTION OF ENFORCEMENT THERE.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS GONE IN AND THEY'VE CONFIRMED WHAT HE LEARNED THROUGHOUT RECORDING THIS BOOK, WHICH IS THAT THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS A HISTORY OF HARSHER TREATMENT FOR BLACK PEOPLE.

THE USES OF FORCE HAVE BEEN EGREGIOUS AND CONTINUE TO BE SO, AND THEY'RE STUCK IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER THEY SHOULD HAVE MORE POLICE OFFICERS BECAUSE SO MANY OF THEM QUIT AFTER GEORGE FLOYD DIED.

I WANT TO ELEVATE THE DISCUSSION JUST A LITTLE BIT TO TALK ABOUT MINNESOTA, BECAUSE WE DID HAVE A REALLY INTERESTING CONVERSATION WITH THE GOVERNOR TIM WALLS WHO'S IN THE BOOK.

AND HE ASKED ME IF HIS STATE WAS HEALING.

AND I SAID, WELL, YOU'RE THE GOVERNOR, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> AND HE SAID, HONESTLY, THEY HAD TRIED TO PUT IN THESE ACCOUNTABILITY MEASURES, BUT EVEN IN A STATE THAT'S SUPPOSEDLY PROGRESSIVE LIKE MINNESOTA IS, WHEN THOSE ACTIVISTS, THESE MOTHERS WHO ARE HURTING COME AND SPEAK TO THE OFFICIAL ABOUT THE SYSTEMIC RACISM, IT'S ONE OF THE -- FROM BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.

AND HE WONDERED HOW YOU COULD SQUARE A WORLD IN WHICH ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THIS STATE, MOSTLY WHITE PEOPLE, WERE NOT EVEN ABLE TO WRAP THEMSELVES AROUND THE FACT THAT THEIR STATE WAS UNEQUAL.

AND HOW YOU COULD HELP EDUCATE THEM AT A TIME WHEN BLACK PEOPLE IN HIS STATE, IN HIS COUNTRY, FEEL THE URGENT NEED FOR CHANGE.

BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THEIR SON TO BE THE NEXT GEORGE FLOYD.

AND WHEN I SAY, THAT I DON'T MEAN THEY DON'T WANT THEIR SON TO BE KILLED BY ANOTHER POLICE OFFICER.

I SAY THAT IN THINKING OF THE ENTIRE LIFE OF GEORGE FLOYD, WHICH OUR REPORTING SHOWED HAD TO DEAL WITH SYSTEMIC RACISM FROM BEGINNING.

THEY HAD TO DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN INHERITERS OF GREAT WEALTH IF THEIR LAND WASN'T LOST BY A -- IF THEIR LAND WASN'T STOLEN.

THEY HAD THE DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT THEIR SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE CRUMBLING.

AND TOLD GEORGE FLOYD, WHO WANTED TO BE A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, THAT THE BEST WAY TO SUCCEED IN LIFE IS TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT STILL NEED TO CONTINUE TO BE ADDRESSED THAT HAVE BEEN NOT BEEN ADDRESSED.

SO, THE QUESTION THAT I THINK WE HAVE TO POSIT FOR OURSELVES IS HOW DO WE GET PEOPLE TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THE BLACK STORY THAT DESPITE HOPE IN AMERICA THERE'S STILL MUCH TO BE HOPED FOR, AND TO GET THEM TO STOP DEBATING THE NUANCES AND TO SEE THE FULL STRUCTURES FOR WHAT THEY ARE?

>> SIMPLY BECAUSE I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CIRCLE BACK ON THIS POINT, DR. FLEMING, WHAT WE JUST HEARD ROBERT DESCRIBE, DOES THAT FIT INTO THE DEFINITION THAT YOU JUST GAVE US OF SOME OF THE PROBLEMATIC ASPECTS OF WHITE SUPREMACY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

WHEN YOU HAVE ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS DENY OR DISAVOW THE REALITY THAT WE LIVE IN A RACIST SOCIETY, AND TO DENY THAT AT EVERY LEVEL OF ANALYSIS, TO DENY THAT'S THE FACT OF LIFE FOR OUR STATES, FOR OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, WE ARE AT AN ABYSMAL POLITICAL SITUATION OF DENIAL, AND IT'S A CORE FACET OF WHITE SUPREMACY TO PRETEND AS THOUGH IT'S NOT HAPPENING.

OR IN EARLIER PARTS OF HISTORY TO PRETEND IT WAS OKAY.

SO WE'VE MOVED FROM WHAT WAS THE DOMINANT PERSPECTIVE THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY AND OUR POLITICS AND EDUCATION, WHICH WAS THAT WHITE SUPREMACY WAS THE LAW OF THE LAND, IT WAS,EN WHY, REPRESENTED AS GOD'S WILL, MANIFEST DESTINY, THE IDEA THAT THIS TERRITORY SHOULD BELONG THE EUROPEAN COLONIZERS AND THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE DISPOSSESSED OR SUBJECT TO GENOCIDE, THAT WAS TAUGHT AND INDOCTRINATED AS THE RIGHT THING FOR GENERATIONS.

SO WE'VE MOVED FROM THAT OPEN, PROUD EMBRACE OF WHITE SUPREMACY THAT CHARACTERIZED MOST OF OUR HISTORY TO A PERIOD OF DEEPLY ENTRENCHED DENIAL, AND THAT DENIAL IS JUST AS DANGEROUS AS THE EARLIER PERIOD WHERE WHITE SUPREMACY WAS OPENLY EMBRACED.

BECAUSE IF WE CONTINUE TO DENY THESE PROBLEMS, AGAIN, HOW ARE WE GOING TO REALLY SEE THE KIND OF SYSTEMIC STRUCTURAL CHANGE THAT WE SO DESPERATELY NEED?

>> ELISSA, I WANT TO TAKE TIME TO BRING YOU BACK IN.

WITH EVERYTHING YOU DISCUSSED AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW WITH THE LATEST SUBWAY SHOOTING AND THE PRESSURE BEING PUT ON MAYOR ERIC ADAMS TO MAKE NEW YORK SAFER, AN OF COURSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO EXPECT THAT PRESSURE TO COME THROUGH THE NYPD, WHICH WE KNOW HAS ITS OWN HISTORY WITH A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH RACIST POLICING AND THE BEHAVIOR OF A LOT OF ITS -- WELL, AT LEAST SOME OF ITS POLICE OFFICERS WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF RACIST ACTS.

AND SO DO WE KNOW HOW OR IF IT'S POSSIBLE FOR THE ADAMS ADMINISTRATION TO TAKE A LOT OF WHAT WE'VE JUST HEARD AND INCORPORATE THAT INTO HOW THE CITY ATTEMPTS TO ADDRESS RISE IN CRIME?

>> YEAH, IT'S -- ERIC ADAMS IS SUCH AN INTERESTING FIGURE IN THE ENTIRE POST GEORGE FLOYD RECKONING, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, HE IS OF COURSE A RETIRED NYPD OFFICER, HE'S AFRICAN AMERICAN, AND HE IS SORT OF OUT -- HE'S TRYING TO POSITION HIMSELF AS KIND OF A BRIDGE BUILDER.

HE WOULD NEVER SPEAK -- I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER HEARD HIM SPEAK IN THE FRAME OF WHITE SUPREMACY IN TERMS OF HOW HE'S LOOKING AT THE PROBLEM TO SOLVE.

HE'S SIMPLY SAYING I AM HERE TO PROMOTE PUBLIC SAFETY.

AND THEN WHEN HE'S DOING SO, WE HAVE SEVERAL TROUBLING TRENDS GOING ON, OF.

WE HAVE OF COURSE THE GEORGE FLOYD PROTESTS.

CERTAINLY IN NEW YORK CITY, MINNESOTA, MANY PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY DEMANDED TO DEFUND THE POLICE, TO REALLY SCALE BACK ON THIS FLOODING OF MAJORITY AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES WITH EXCESSIVE POLICING.

YOU KNOW, THE ENTIRE STOP AND FRISK HISTORY HERE IN NEW YORK CITY AND SO MANY OTHER EXAMPLES, INCLUDING THE PATROLLING THAT LEAD TO FLOYD'S DEATH.

YOU KNOW, SO INSTEAD WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN THE NYPD BUDGET THAT ADAMS HAS PROPOSED AND IS NEGOTIATING WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.

YOU ALSO HAVE CASE WHERE IS THE CITY'S CIVILIAN COMPLAINT REVIEW BOARD -- HAD HUNDRED OF COMPLAINTS, PROTESTER WHO IS REPORTED BEING BRUTALIZED, ABUSED, MISTREATED.

WE HAD OFFICERS DRIVING THEIR CARS INTO PEOPLE.

AND SO THE CCRB ADVISED SERIOUS DISCIPLINE IN SOMETHING LIKE 118 CASES, AND ONLY IN A VERY SMALL MINORITY OF THOSE CASES IS THE NYPD IN FACT MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT DISCIPLINE.

IN MANY OTHER IT'S REJECTED THE CCRB'S OWN RECOMMENDATION FOR WHAT TO DO.

YOU STILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST THE NYPD HAS -- IS GOING AHEAD DESPITE THE POLICE UNION RESISTING TO SAY THEY ARE GOING TO SUBJECT THE OFFICER WHO KILLED DELVERON SMALLS TO DISCIPLINE.

BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROCEEDING OR OUTCOME WILL BE.

SO YOU HAVE ADAMS TRYING TO BE THIS FIGURE STEPPING ENTIRELY OUTSIDE THIS CONVERSATION SAYING HE'LL ADDRESS IT WITH A STEPPED UP NYPD, AND WE SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT WILL MEAN FOR THE COMMUNITIES BEING POLICED.

>> UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME.

I WANT TO THANK ALL OF MY GUESTS.

ROBERT SAMUELS, JAMEEL CRUZ, DR. FLEMING AND ELISSA KATZ.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, OF COURSE, ON "METROFOCUS."

WE'LL CONTINUE HAVING THESE INCREDIBLY CHALLENGING BUT CRITICALLY IMPORTANT DISCUSSIONS, SO THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US ON THE FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.