AMNA NAWAZ: As the 2024 presidential race takes shape, we're getting perspective tonight from two Republicans.

GEOFF BENNETT: First up, New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu.

He's considering a run for the GOP presidential nomination, and I spoke with him earlier today about that and the future of the Republican Party.

New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, thanks for coming in.

Good to see you.

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): Well, thanks for having me in.

This is great, yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you have said that Donald Trump will not be the Republican Party's nominee in 2024.

You said, that is just not going to happen.

How can you be so sure?

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: Well, he ain't going up, right?

So, with the former president, as I have said many times, thank you for your service.

I think he did some very good things, but we're moving on as a country.

He's a known commodity.

Let's just start there, right?

There's very few Americans right now that are kind of on the fence, whether they would be with him or against him.

People know where they are.

So he's going to have a tough time going up in the polls, if you will.

And there's other really good, viable next-generation candidates out there that are going to step forward.

And so the race hasn't even really started.

You're in the news, and I'm a politician.

So we're in the mix.

The average American family isn't even thinking about this yet.

They're really not.

They're just getting over the hangover of November of '22.

They're glad that they're not inundated with a lot of campaign ads and all that sort of thing.

And folks are taking a breath, and then, maybe around this fall, the debates will pick up.

People will start really paying attention.

You will see all these other candidates potentially rise to the top.

So I just don't see it going up.

And as I have always said, it's not in our DNA as Americans to go backwards.

And that would be going backwards.

GEOFF BENNETT: Taking your point that it's March of 2023, and there's a ways to go, the design of the Republican Party's winner-take-all delegate system benefits someone like Donald Trump, whose base of support seems pretty stuck at around 35 to 40 percent, not a majority, but it's enough to deliver him the nomination.

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: If there were six, seven, eight candidates in the race when these -- when these -- as these races play out.

That's not going to be the case.

I think the Republican Party definitely learned their lesson, so to say, in 2016, and I don't mind who gets into a race.

I have learned you can't control who gets in.

But I think we all understand - - and I have talked to all the candidates about this -- the discipline of getting out.

If you're not polling, if it's really not going to happen, get out, get out early, galvanize behind a single candidate, likely someone not that -- named Donald Trump, and they're going to move forward, and we're going to move forward as a party.

So I'm just incredibly optimistic about it.

There's still so much politics to play out.

We don't know where things are going.

But that's the fun of it.

GEOFF BENNETT: The insurrection, the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, that could have been the Republican Party's breaking point with Donald Trump.

And for a few days after, it seems like it might have been.

But now none of the Republicans running against him want to talk about it.

You say you have talked to all of these candidates.

Why not?

Why don't they talk about that issue in particular?

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: Well, I don't know.

Look, I mean, everybody saw what happened on January 6.

The one, I would say, positive aspect over the last two years is, we have seen everything, right?

And we have even new tapes coming out as early as even yesterday, some stuff coming out.

So we know what happened there.

People understand it.

I think America has to kind of learn that lesson and understand where extremism can go, the dangers of it.

But I think we have.

I mean, why other candidates might not talk about it, I don't know.

But I think there's definitely something to be learned.

It's nothing that you can just step over and ignore.

It's part -- it's part of our history, unfortunately.

And, again, you have to really kind of, hopefully, let those pains grow in and understand why and how did we get there?

What pushed that?

And there's a large part of the population that still surprises me that they're OK with it.

They didn't see what a lot of us saw as an insurrection event on the U.S. Capitol.

And that's a very, very dangerous thing for our democracy, for where we go as a country.

GEOFF BENNETT: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, in his own way, has departed from GOP orthodoxy in support of free market capitalism.

He's using his executive power to target private companies, namely, Disney.

You are an old-school Republican, if I can use that phrase.

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: I'm not old, but... (LAUGHTER) GEOFF BENNETT: But is that something that sits well with you?

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: No.

GEOFF BENNETT: You talk about the next generation of Republicans.

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: Yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: I imagine you're talking about him when you say that... (CROSSTALK) GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: Yes, look, there's nothing old-school about being a principled, free market conservative, because, at its fundamentals, that's what Republican is all about.

It's about limited government, local control, individual responsibility, and valuing that the voter knows better than we do.

I'm the governor.

I will tell you, the voter is smarter than I am, because the voter knows what their school needs.

They know what roads need to be paved.

They know what their community needs.

My job is to create as many doors of opportunity for them to be successful, not to take kind of vengeance out or revenge because somebody doesn't agree with me politically on something.

So, I will say, I think Ron is a good guy.

I think we definitely differ in that approach.

He's talking a lot about this wokism, which I cannot stand, the cancel culture, which is just like a parasite running its way through the United States.

I think we have to talk about that stuff.

And you have to be willing to have the fight.

You can't only be about the fight.

That can't be what defines you.

But, as a leader, you got to be able to talk about that and have the fight.

But at the end of the day, it's about a free market.

It's about appreciating the value of that individual over the -- over the government.

GEOFF BENNETT: It strikes me, though, that what the Trump base wants is the fight?

Isn't that -- you see it that way?

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: Well, there's a lot of anger, right?

So let's understand, why did Donald Trump get elected in 2016?

He connected with folks with their anger, and he gave a voice to that.

And there's -- there was a lot of validity to that.

So when folks get frustrated, they want to find someone that they can empathetically connect with, with their frustrations, their anger, where they want to see things go.

I think sometimes we get a little blind and thinking that governments can just solve it for us.

As long as they're on our side, government will solve the problem.

Government is not here to solve your problem.

I'm the governor.

I'm telling you, that's not our job.

Our job is to create doors of opportunity for you or your family, your business, your school, whatever it is, your kids.

And then you decide what door you best -- best fits you and your path.

GEOFF BENNETT: You launched a national political fund-raising group, which is the most significant sign yet that you're serious about running for president.

What's it going to take for you to make that decision, ultimately?

What are you waiting for?

What are you looking for?

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: Well, it's a good question.

So we don't have to make the decision now.

Kind of looking to see where a lot of this plays out.

My number one purpose right now is making sure that, as Republicans, we're making the party bigger, we're talking to independents.

And we have disenfranchised some independents.

We need them back on the team.

We're talking with more inspirational voice, because no one gets inspired to get on your team by getting yelled at all the time.

So, as a leader, I try to be more positive in my approach, and I want to talk to that next generation.

I think the next generation of potential Republican and Republican voters are probably further away from us than they ever have been.

But we got a great product.

We got something that we want to bring them in on.

I think they're a little disenfranchised with some of the messaging.

I don't like using the word branding, but some of the messaging that's out there.

But we have got this great thing of limited government, local control.

You are smarter than the government.

And that's a great thing that Republicans need to rally around and get those voters back.

And if that leads to something bigger in terms of me getting in the race, being a spark of '23 that gets people excited, then so be it.

That would be awesome.

But this organization is really about charging forward and growing the party, ensuring a November win.

GEOFF BENNETT: That sounds like the elevator pitch for a Sununu candidacy.

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: Does it?

GEOFF BENNETT: A little.

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: Well, we will see.

No, look, I don't know where it's going to go.

I think this summer -- most candidates will have to figure out what they're doing by this summer.

I'd love to get in debate, don't get me wrong.

I love debating.

I love talking about this stuff.

I love bringing kind of a different attitude and a different spirit to it.

But it's got to be right for me and my family and the country.

I'm not doing this for myself.

I mean, it's -- it would be a huge sacrifice.

So you got to make sure that, whatever you're going to do, you can give it 120 percent.

I always -- I'm amazed by people that always look miserable in their job, right?

Politicians, my peers especially, sometimes, they look so miserable.

They're so angry.

All they're doing is yelling at everybody.

But if you look unhappy in your job, is the public really going to believe you're going to give 120 percent to it?

But it demands 120 percent.

And I love what I do as governor.

I really do, a four-term governor.

We have gotten extraordinary results, but I think with a very everyday approach.

And I think that's something that folks are looking for.

GEOFF BENNETT: New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, it's good to see you.

Thanks for coming in.

GOV.

CHRIS SUNUNU: It was a lot of fun.

Thank you, man.

GEOFF BENNETT: All right.