>> Hi.

I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

In this episode, the legendary Steve Aoki, a globally acclaimed deejay, producer, and entrepreneur, shares his incredible journey in music and beyond.

We explore the power of collaboration, his role as a futurist, and how artists can inspire innovation.

Discover the defining moments that shaped Steve's career, and gain valuable insights into achieving your dreams.

I'm so glad you're here today.

Now let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪♪ ♪♪ Did you always think that collaboration was going to be a big part of your success, and learning how to build great art with other people and lifting others up, as well?

Did you feel like that would always support you in this career, in this endeavor?

>> Yeah, I think, when I think of collaboration, I think of your contribution.

And so this brings me back to day one for me.

So, when I got -- When I found music as like, "Okay, this is going to be my life, my lifestyle, my culture, everything," when I was like 15 years old, that's when I understood this -- this term "collaboration."

But more this idea of like, "How much can I contribute to something I love, to this community?"

And then it's a collaboration, because you have to come to the table with something, right?

So, if you're going to collaborate, if we're going to collaborate, it's not like, "Oh yeah, I'm just going to be just chilling, and you're going to do all the work, and it's a collaboration."

Like, the best collaborations is, like, the, like, premium contributions from everyone in that group.

And then you get a "one plus one equals 100," right?

But if everyone's too passive, then you're going to get "one plus one equals two."

You know?

>> Mm-hmm.

>> So it's, like, I learned.

Luckily, I learned this idea of contribution and how important that is to my community when I was so young.

>> Really?

>> Because, in the punk hardcore scene, which is what the music genre I got involved in, it was so small that everyone's -- everyone had an impact, and we felt the impact.

>> How did everyone have an impact?

Because you all had to, like, bring like two friends and you had to create the experience and the whole thing, right?

>> Like, so, you think about it like this.

Like, the way religion works, way like, you know, sports work, whatever communities that have, like, you know, strong sense of like, "Oh, you know, I want to be part of it."

This kind of feeling of bonding.

It's all based on, like, how do you spread the message?

How do you get people to understand what you believe in is so strong?

Like, I believe in this so strongly, I'm going to knock on every door and tell everyone about the Word of Jesus Christ, or whatever it might be.

So, very similar to that with this scene.

Our scene is so small, there's only like a few kids.

I remember it was like five kids in my high school that listened to this music.

And no one gets it because it's screaming music and thrashing guitars.

>> You can't hear the words.

>> But, like, once you feel it, you're like, "Oh, this is, like, this is changing my life.

I just want to figure out, how do you get the message out?"

You have to write a zine.

You have to interview bands.

You have to put on shows in, like, abandoned warehouses.

You have to start a band, because you can, because there's no one else, like, else doing it.

You have to learn music.

You have, like -- It's all these things.

It's like you're not -- you're no longer a passive participant.

And this is, like, the main differential, I think, is when I listened to music before then, I was -- I was a passive participant, like, listening, "Oh, this is cool.

I love these lyrics.

I'm going to sing the songs.

You know, I like this man or this group," to, like, being a creator in the space, because you now have an impact.

Like when I make a zine at Kinko's, and I'm, like, putting my stuff together and my poetry, putting this in, and I give it to someone, it actu-- people are going to care about it because there's not many people doing it.

>> Right.

>> So it was, like, at that point, I was lucky to have this kind of onboarding into "contributing."

And then, essentially, that's collaboration.

So, like, the more you contribute that's actually a quality service or quality thing that's, like, actually impacting your little culture, once you feel it, it resonates with you, then you want to do it again in a different means.

You know, like, I first started doing a zine, then I see a band, I'm like, "Oh, I could do that, too.

I want to, like, pick up guitar and with my friends who don't know how to play.

And we're going to thrash around."

And all of a sudden, like, we get good, by the nature of just doing it.

You know?

And then that same philosophy has transcended in every single industry, in every single evolution of my identity.

>> Wow.

>> Like, everywhere.

It doesn't matter what it is.

It's, like, I have this ability to, just as long as I have this passion, to contribute whatever I know, like my toolbox, like I'm bringing to the table.

And then also, when you go into a collaboration, when you contribute, you can't be, like, running the show and trying to to be, like, the big man.

>> But it seems like a lot of people just want it to be easy.

They want someone to collaborate with them, and them to do all the work -- the other person, as opposed to also contributing.

Have you always had that mindset of, "I want to add maximum value to this collaboration or partnership"?

Or where did that come about?

>> Whenever you add the maximum value, your output is going to be greater than what you think.

So that's -- like, it's just -- this is the kind of thing you learn early on.

So, once you put in all the time, then, you know, at least for yourself, you know, there's obviously, like, records that I've spent, like, a lot of time.

Way more time than records that just naturally flowed.

and it was a very quick process And they blew up and they -- and these ones don't happen.

>> You spend more time on stuff that doesn't blow up.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

>> Other things, it's like one day, and it's, like, the biggest thing ever.

>> So, like, to manage that -- okay?

-- this is, like -- I'm going to digress -- to manage that, I -- once I started seeing that and it, like, kind of hurts your ego a bit -- right?

-- you're like, "I spent so much time on this, and it just didn't pop off or make the impact you expect it to make."

You just have to -- You have to, like, level the whole field of your expectations of, you know -- I mean, back then, it wasn't streams, but, you know... >> Download, streams.

>> Whatever it might be, how you indicate a success of the song, I have -- I just, like, at this point, I don't even think about -- We have this managerial conversations, which, like, that's what the managers do, is like, "How do you -- How do you make this record get more visibility or, you know, listenership?"

>> Yeah.

>> But, for me, it's like, I just need to know, like, in my heart, like, genuinely, I'm happy with it, whether it gets, like, you know, whatever.

>> A billion streams or 100 streams.

>> Exactly.

>> You got to love it.

>> Yeah, like, that's the core of it, for sure.

And then, like -- Then, I look retrospectively.

Okay?

Then, I could be strategic.

But, like, in the moment, I don't want it to affect my creative process.

>> Yes.

>> But retrospectively, I'm like, "Okay, these -- this didn't work, and now I have to learn to pivot and I have to learn to try things."

And that's the nature of being a, I guess, entrepreneur in many ways, or an innovator, is that you need to learn how to pivot.

And with culture being so unforgiving and so fast-paced.

>> Constantly changing.

>> Yeah, and how fast -- how fast the attention spans are going and how, you know, you have to be ahead.

You have to constantly reinvent yourself and pivot fast.

So, and it's why it's never -- it's a very tiring -- it can be very tiring as a creator, because you can't just, like, rest on your laurels, or you can't do the same wheel that you've already created.

You have to -- I mean, you have, like, this general -- like, general wheel of how you do things, but you have to constantly, like, change the parts.

>> This is fascinating stuff, man.

I want to continue on this conversation about collaboration, because I feel like there's a lot of people in -- I grew up in the sports world, playing sports, and it was a lot about competition.

It was, like, you need to win in order to succeed.

There's a winner, there's a loser.

Sure, you need to collaborate with your teammates, but you're always trying to beat someone.

And I took that into my kind of entrepreneurial journey after sports, in my mid to late 20s, where I was very competitive, win/lose.

And I realized that that got me success, but it left me feeling very unfulfilled.

And about 10 years ago, I realized that's not how I want to be anymore.

So everything became about collaboration.

>> Right.

>> Became about "How can I interview someone else and make it about them, not make it about me?

How can I elevate other people and collaborate?"

But it seems to be like a lot of people in business, in music, in the arts are still -- there's still a competitive mindset in the world for a lot of people.

Not everyone.

>> Yeah.

>> Why do you think so many people are still in a competitive mindset in different industries, as opposed to in this collaborative mindset like you've been?

>> So, before we get to that, I do like this thing you're saying, like, how you would like to elevate who you're interviewing.

Like, this collaboration is more about elevating someone else.

So that really is the magical sauce in the studio.

So, when I'm in the studio with an artist that comes, now they end up coming to my house, because my studio is in my house.

And I have a studio here in L.A. Actually, I did some legendary sessions here in L.A., and it's still here.

So, I have a studio here and a studio in Vegas.

But in any case, I think the magical dust in this whole thing is, like, to elevate them.

You know, it's not about me.

Like, they're already coming to me.

That's already enough.

They already know they'll like it, that they're like, "I want to work with that Steve Aoki, like, power production," whatever it is that they come for.

So, like, I don't need to -- I don't need to flex or do anything.

I'm going to do it anyways.

>> Right, you're going to have your moment.

>> I'm going to do it.

Like, I don't need to show it.

It's about, like, empowering them and giving them center stage and giving them this feeling of what you're talking about, like, "This is about you."

>> Letting them shine.

>> Yeah, "I want to let you shine," and then we can decide how we want to take it, what direction, what emotion, what, like -- you know, "Are we going to go more in your lane?

Are we going to go more my lane?

Are we going to take a whole new different lane?"

You know, and that's -- that, you find out later on, once the creative process is going, like, "Oh, actually, we're going to go more this direction, because that flow is more reminiscent of this.

And now what?

We want it to resonate with people here."

>> Right.

>> So it's, like -- I think that's, like, the power of collaboration to get the best output for what you're doing is really about giving more and also learning and be becoming more of a student and listening.

So, yeah, I mean, it is a power of contribution, what you're contributing.

But when you've already kind of made it, you don't need to show that because you're going to contribute anyways.

>> Yes.

>> So, by the track record, you're like, this particular person, you could tell they contributed plenty.

You know that their pattern is to contribute at the maximum level, right?

You want to work with those people, because you've already seen the track record.

>> Yeah.

>> So, like, I want to work with them.

And then, when you're in the studio, then the human-to-human connection starts.

>> Right.

>> And if you're, like, overpowering, you're going to take away their creative space.

Like, I'm here to, like, let you shine.

And the more and more they feel that, and the more environment I give them to be in that zone, it's them.

>> That's beautiful.

>> Then, the magic will happen.

But you have -- Like, it takes time to get there sometimes.

>> Yes.

>> Sometimes it takes a whole like two sessions.

>> Right.

>> Sometimes it's, like, immediate.

You know, it's just, you just don't know, because everyone's different.

>> Different process for everyone.

Do you feel like, if you had more of a competitive mindset for the last, you know, since you started in this industry, if you were more like, "I'm going to hoard my secrets and my talents and my skills, and I'm going to make it all about me, and I'm going to try to, you know, build this thing about me, and only me, and kind of, you know, work with some people here and there, but really working with people to build my platform more, as opposed to shared collaboration, do you feel like you'd be more successful financially or have more of an audience if you made it more about you?

>> I don't think so.

I think if you hoard too much -- I mean, the world loves, like this transparency.

You know, it's like -- And, like, now the way the world is, it's like they want to see all of it.

You know?

So, if you're hoarding and you're like -- I mean, there's, like -- there's no real secrets, though.

You know, of course, like, yeah, yeah, like, you know, the secret sauce to pizza and, like, the sauce is in the secret.

You know, yeah, of course it tastes a little different, but, like, the ingredients are all the same.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, music is music.

It can be made differently.

So, at the end of the day, it's, you know -- it's like, I don't care to hide any of that, because there's nothing to really hide.

There's no, like, secret in the cakes.

You know, there is a six-page cake rider that goes -- sent to, like, promoters, that they have to follow because I need that cake to explode all over someone's face.

>> Sure, sure.

>> And there's no secrets in my production.

>> Uh-huh.

>> And honestly, my music, I want it to evolve and change.

So the secret or whatever, the ingredients of of my production, is always going to innovate and change anyways.

And the more people I work with, it's going to change even faster.

>> You'll pick up ideas, you'll learn something.

>> Yeah, right.

And I bring in not just, like, singers to the studio or other producers.

I bring in, like, instrumentalists, musicians.

I'm like, "I want to hear a sax player this time."

>> That's cool.

>> "I want to hear someone else."

I play guitar riff, I'm like, "I need to get that played better and different, but here's the base of what I want."

And I'm bringing it like a guitarist that's going to, like, you know, take that to the next level.

>> Wow.

>> Because at the end of the day, I have to remember I'm the producer.

So, as a producer, you're listening for what is the best of all the takes.

And the best of all takes, You can't be selfish and be like, "They're all my takes."

>> No.

>> You know, there's going to be a better singer.

I sing a line, I'm like, "I need someone else to sing it better."

You know?

Or I have, like, a bunch of different people come into my house.

We do writing camps and take different rooms, and we build, like, the kind of like the mood board of what we're going for, for the day, but with freedom to kind of expand and then, you know, just allow everyone to be free.

And then, as the producer, and the A&R or the ear, which I trust that, then I kind of pick my favorite parts and then go, "We're going to Frankenstein, or comp-enstein, all of these together.

>> Comp-enstein is cool.

>> And comp, like, ideas into one thing, you know, and then go, "Oh, this fits these five different artists I'd like to hit up."

You know?

And then I do some outreach and then, you know.

And like, you know, it's like most of the time, it's like you can't -- if you hit up, like, "Hey, manager, can you hit up their manager?"

And, like, yeah, they can.

But, like, that usually falls on deaf ears.

>> Reach out direct, yeah.

>> It's usual artist-to-artist that starts the conversation, because they have to really want it, too.

And then they'll go, "Alright, team, you guys do the work that..." >> "We started this.

Now move it forward."

It's like with me and podcasting is, you know, probably 95% of the bookings are through me having a relationship, sending someone a message, a D.M., commenting on it, say, "Hey, I'd love to have you on," and then figuring out the timing with our teams, when it's going to happen.

Most of the time, that's the way it goes down.

So, what I'm hearing you say is that if you were more in a competitive mindset this whole time, and hoarding your talents and information, you wouldn't be as successful as if you have been collaborating this entire time.

>> So, I'm absolutely competitive.

>> Right.

>> Absolutely competitive.

Like, everything is a competition.

Not necessarily with other people though.

>> Right.

>> Okay, so that's, like -- I think that's a major difference.

>> Interesting.

>> And I compete with myself with everything.

You know, and this is not just, like, for music.

This is, like, my health.

Biomarkers.

>> Sleep scores, everything.

>> Everything, yeah.

Like, you know, I got my -- I got, like, all kinds of data.

Like, data is everything, right?

So I love data in this regard because that's how you truly can better yourself -- compete with your previous self.

And you know, I do my blood draws and just check all my levels and go, "Okay, I need a little bit more here, a little bit less of this.

How do I tool this?"

That's a fun game.

To gamify how you compete with yourself is actually fun, and it engages you more.

And I'm a big -- I'm really big into gamifying.

I, like, gamify everything I do, because it makes it more interesting.

And then, of course, you do something consistently over time, it's no longer a chore.

Right?

So I already understand that.

>> It's your lifestyle.

>> Yeah, in the beginning, if you don't gamify it, it makes it more difficult, whether it's stop eating certain carbs, to working out a certain amount of time, to doing something that you need to do consistently, that's that takes a lot of time or doesn't, like meditation, whatever it might be, or reading a book or something like that, where you could easily disregard it and carry on through your life and feel satisfied, but you could always be more enriched.

>> I want to acknowledge you before I ask these final two questions.

I want to acknowledge Steve for, man, your consistency and your commitment, because -- I think you mentioned this -- there's a lot of artists or just people in different industries, whether it's business or writing or music -- There's a lot of people that don't stay consistent over time.

They might have big moments, but then they fall off, or they treat people poorly, and people don't want to work with them.

But I really acknowledge you for, you know, 15-plus years of consistently showing up and adding value to your communities, to other artists, to other business partners, and saying, "How can I provide value, as opposed to only take?"

I'd love for you to imagine that you get to live as long as you want and accomplish everything you want to accomplish.

But it's the last day on Earth for you, at some point.

Live as long as you want.

And for whatever reason, you got to take all of your work with you -- all of your art, your music, this conversation.

Anything you create, it's got to go with you to the next place.

So we don't have access to your content anymore.

All your I.P.

gone, but you get to leave behind three lessons to the whole world -- three things that you know to be true, from all the life you've lived.

And this is all we would have to remember you by, are these three lessons.

What would be those three truths?

>> [ Laughs ] >> What would be those three truths for you?

>> I love sci-fi.

I was, like, thinking to myself, in this whole new world of where things would be.

>> What would be those three?

Those three lessons of truth that's all we have to... >> Well, one is to --is, going back to what I was saying, the most important thing is, is you have to really give your -- the best-quality time to the people that you love.

When you give, it's so much more powerful than receiving, because, like, it's very selfish to give.

>> Because it feels better.

>> It feels incredible.

You know?

When you give something, you could see someone's face light up with, like, genuine joy and happiness.

It's the greatest feeling, especially when you love them.

One is that, and then two is, going back to what we're talking about, the contribution, like, always give the most.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Because, like, at the end of the day, when you think about, you know, reputation, things like that, whenever I think about people that have great reputations, they're transparent.

They always -- They always, like, offer more.

And you know, like, you know, like, of course, we all -- we get greedy, we get selfish.

And we're like, "Oh, but if I just take right now, then I'll have more.

But if you keep doing that, like, you're going to lose all your relationships.

>> Right.

>> You know, that's 100% certainty.

If you think short-term only for yourself, you will 100% have, like, no future in -- with those people.

That's just -- unless it's, like, unconditional like mom, that's like, "I have to take care of my son."

It's like always just taking, taking, taking, taking, taking, taking, you know?

Even the mom might get less for you.

So I think you have to give maximum level of, like, you know, give as much as you can, on contribution.

So I think it's about maximum value of what you put out.

Whatever you do, don't be passive.

Don't give the bare minimum.

If you're going to do it, you have to give as much as possible.

>> Yes.

>> And the more you do it, you're always going to be someone that people want to work with, you know, someone that people will remember, like, "Oh, they're great to work with.

They're great that they give, because they always do more, and they don't want anything else in return."

So that's actually a big thing to remember.

The people that give a lot, and they don't want anything in return, consistently, they're, like, they don't -- they actually do it just to do it.

You know, those people, like, you want to work with those people, you want to be those people.

>> Right.

>> That is a powerful one, is, like, giving as much as you possibly can if you are going to do it.

If you don't -- Like, you don't have to do it all.

Like, saying no is just as important, too.

Like, I can -- I can't give as much time, so I'm not going to do it.

So you have to make that decision.

So I think, how you contribute has to be the best that you can.

So, that's two.

Three is having an open mind to try many different things and to learn and always be a great listener and always be a great student to learn, you know, to receive, you know, and, like, really, truly be present in the receiving side of things.

>> Final question, Steve.

What is your definition of "greatness"?

>> The definition of "greatness" is very similar to, like, the definition of "success."

You know, like, what is success to me?

It's not -- It's not, like, up to someone else to define that success.

That's really important.

That's, like -- You know, I think it's, like -- it's a little bit complicated because I think when we think of what's great, it's always what other people think is what's great.

You know, like, success is always what, like, society deems is what's successful or what's great.

So I it's really about, like, how do I feel about myself?

Do I feel great because I was able to accomplish these things?

So it's more about how I feel.

Like, did I do something where it made me feel great for myself?

You know, whether it's finishing a song or it could be simply just having lunch with my mom.

You know?

Like, these are things that they make me feel great today.

>> Yeah.

>> So I think it's all more subjective.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's always, like -- It's always a new challenge.

It's always a challenge.

It's not -- It can never be within your comfort zone.

It has to be not -- It's got to be outside of the comfort zone, but not impossible.

So in this kind of, like, this area where it's you need to go beyond what's comfortable and into this zone of what's, like, attainable, but it's difficult.

>> Yeah.

There you have it.

Steve Aoki, my man.

Thanks for being here, bro.

>> Yeah, appreciate it, man.

>> Powerful.

We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable.

Stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness" coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes.

And if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

Now it's time to go out there and do something great.

Continue on the journey of greatness with me.

Please check out my website, lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of "The School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course Find Your Greatness is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

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